You must love me or else

[Soul]

Does Soul really expect people to read the idiotic blithering of an insane moron!?

Your calling Maria Valtorta an insane moron is done in ignorance, because you haven't read her writings, nor the findings by those who actually have read them, as well as analyzed them, such as, for example, Prof. Leo A. Brodeur, M.A., Lèsl., Ph.D., H.Sc.D., and the historian Jean Aulagnier, who both concluded she couldn't have been mentally ill, nor that it could've been a hoax, or traced back to her fantasy.

[Soul]

That's called "weaseling" if you haven't heard it before.

So, you choose to willfully refuse confirming what I informed you. So be it. I'll do it for you:

The Hebrew idiom "three days and three nights" doesn't mean three full 24-hour periods but rather a symbolic period of about three days, encompassing any part of three consecutive days and nights, with the whole unit counted as one. This idiom was understood by first-century Jews to mean a time frame such as the one between Friday afternoon and Sunday morning, a period they would have described as "three days and three nights" even though it was less than 72 hours.

Understanding the Idiom

• Part of a day is the whole day: In ancient Jewish timekeeping, any portion of a day or night could be considered a full day or night for reckoning purposes.
  
• Jewish day starts at sunset: The Jewish day begins at sundown, so a period that began on Friday afternoon and ended on Sunday morning would involve parts of three days and three nights.
  
• Similar to modern English: The concept is similar to how modern English speakers might say they took a "three-day weekend" (Friday through Sunday) without meaning three exact 24-hour periods.
  

and https://biblearchaeology.org/abr-projects/the-daniel-9-24-27-project-2/5134-what-did-jesus-mean-by-three-days-and-three-nights

Now, when determining how long someone has been lifeless, you go by their time/day of death, not burial. According to the Evangelists, Jesus died at "the ninth hour" (3 pm) in the late afternoon on "Preparation day, the day before the Sabbath" (Friday) (Matt. 27:46;50, Mk.15:34;37;42, and Lk. 23:44;46), and the women disciples started walking to Jesus's sepulcher to anoint His body on "the first day of the week" (Sunday) when it was "beginning to dawn" and "still dark" (Matt. 28:1, Lk. 24:1, Jn. 20:1).

Thirdly, the Evangelists don't mention the exact time of Jesus's resurrection, but based on their accounts of the time/day of death (3 pm on Friday) and discovery of the empty tomb on Sunday morning, we know that Jesus wasn't lifeless for seventy-two hours, and that corresponds with Jesus's use of the Hebraic idiom "three days and three nights" meaning "approx. three days, and any event touching upon any part of the third day".

While the exact time of Jesus's resurrection can't be determined from what we have of the Evangelist's accounts, Jesus has made that detail known through His "pen" Maria Valtorta. She took dictation from Him and He said that His body had been lifeless for thirty-eight hours from His time of death of 3 pm on Friday (The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. V), which places His resurrection around 5 am on Sunday, and this corresponds with the Hebraic idiom "three days and three nights" (approx. three days, and any event touching upon any part of the third day), as well as the women disciples discovering the empty tomb on Sunday morning.

Thursday ends and Friday begins at sunset (Day 1)
Friday 3 pm: Jesus dies
Friday 3 pm to sunset: Jesus's Body remained lifeless

Saturday begins at sunset (Day 2)
Saturday: Jesus's Body remained lifeless

Sunday begins at sunset (Day 3)
Sunday sunset to 5 am: Jesus's Body remained lifeless
Sunday 5 am: Jesus resurrects

[Gawdzilla Sama]

When I was taking Abnormal Psych at (a large Midwest University) there was a proposal to study religion along with other mental illnesses. Some people have very mild mental illnesses, some with eat your baby alive and demand to be thanked. The crazies were up in arms about the proposed entry in the first Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM). Threats were made, up to and including murder of person and family. Made for great class material.

[Cassia]

When I was taking Abnormal Psych at (a large Midwest University) there was a proposal to study religion along with other mental illnesses. Some people have very mild mental illnesses, some with eat your baby alive and demand to be thanked. The crazies were up in arms about the proposed entry in the first Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM). Threats were made, up to and including murder of person and family. Made for great class material.

Trouble is they are unreachable cult members and will do any sort of mental gymnastics to validate what they want to be true. They live in a moronic world of chanting, patron saints, rosary beads and burning incense.

Catholics literally believe they are transubstantiation cannibals, eating flesh and blood of a human scapegoat once a week. Their whole concept transferring their sins to another person is idiotic. Like sending your grandma to prison for something you did. That's why so many are such terrible people including the priest who lived next door to us. This asshole was sexually abusing women while administering exorcisms. He was even on TV news shows before getting caught. Still a priest too. I knew he was a huge asshole within 5 minutes of meeting him (used to torture insects and frogs) and when I heard he became a priest I thought, well that checks out.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

And your examples show up at the Family Reunion every year. I go armed.

[Nobody]

"Oh Lord, help me be pure, but not yet."
Saint Augustine
😇

[Gawdzilla Sama]

My sister, six  years younger than me, came home from after the girls were shown THAT VIDEO.

"I'm never getting married!"
"That's why God invented bastards."
"I do NOT want to know anything about that!"

She later became the first girl to graduate from her high school pregnant (and married, that was no problem). The next year was reportedly a Macy's parade.

[Soul]

[...] they are unreachable cult members and will do any sort of mental gymnastics to validate what they want to be true.

Let's test that theory. Review and attempt to refute the conclusions reached by the professionals in various fields of study who have read and analyzed Maria Valtorta's writings, a woman who claimed to have taken dictations and received visions from God, such as Professor Emilio Matricciani and Dr. Liberato De Caro, who conducted an astronomical and meteorological analysis of her Work. See an excerpt of their findings below.

The richness of narrative elements contained in The Gospel as Revealed to Me (or The Poem of the Man-God) by Maria Valtorta has allowed to pursue both astronomical and meteorological studies, suited to verify as much as possible what she states. Indeed, Maria Valtorta affirmed to have witnessed in mystic visions the life of Jesus, and in particular his three years of public life, reporting detailed descriptions of landscapes, costumes, uses, roads, towns with their buildings (including the Temple in Jerusalem) and streets, rivers, lakes, hills, valleys, plantations, climate and rainfall rainy days, night sky with its constellations, stars and planets in the Holy Land, all information that should belong to a period of 2000 years ago. This is not possible from a rational point of view, but from this study a surprising and unexpected result emerges: Maria Valtorta narration seems to be not a fruit of her fantasy. In fact, thanks to a complex and rigorous astronomical analysis of the narrative elements present in her writings, it has been possible to determine a precise chronology of every event of Jesus' life that she tells us, even if no explicit calendar date is reported in her writings. In particular, this study has led to dating the crucifixion of Jesus in Friday, April 23 of the year 34, a date already proposed by da I. Newton.

Maria Valtorta has also recorded in the EMV the presence of rain and this has suggested to compare her observations with the current meteorological data concerning the number of rainy days in the Holy Land, as recorded by the Israel Meteorological Service (IMS), because this random variable, as shown, seems to be quite independent by the limited climatic changes that have characterized the Holy Land in the last 2000 years. What has emerged is, once more, surprising and unexpected because the annual and even the monthly frequencies of rainy days found in the EMV correspond to what we find today in the IMS data bank. It seems that she has written down observations and facts really happened at the time of Jesus' life, as a real witness of them would have done. The question arises, unsolved from a point of view exclusively rational, how all this is possible because what Maria Valtorta writes down cannot, in any way, be traced back to her fantasy or to her astronomical and meteorological knowledge.

In conclusion, if from one hand the scientific inquire has evidenced all the surprising and unexpected results reported and discussed in this paper, on the other hand our actual scientific knowledge cannot readily explain how these results are possible.

And, below is an excerpt of their findings from their mathematical analysis:

We have examined and studied the huge amount of literary works written by the Italian mystic Maria Valtorta, to assess similarities and differences. We have used mathematical and statistical tools developed for specifically studying deep linguistic aspects of texts, such as the readability index, the number of characters per word, the number of words per sentence, the number of punctuation marks per sentence and the number of words per punctuation marks, known as the word interval, an index that links the previous indices to fundamental aspects of the short−term memory of reader/listener.

The general trend obtained with statistical confidence tests is enough clear. The literary works explicitly attributable to Maria Valtorta (Autobiography and Descriptions) differ significantly from those of the literary works that, according to her claim, are attributable to the alleged characters Jesus and Mary, and when this is not true, as with the number of words per sentence, PF, (Figure 11a, right panel) and the word interval IP (Figure 12a, right panel), this happens only with Jesus says and Mary says. It seems that when Jesus and Mary allegedly speak directly to her, according to her claim, they adapt their communication to the capacity and robust processing time of her short−term memory. On the contrary, when Jesus speaks to a general audience (Parables and Sermons and Speeches) he adopts a significant lower word interval and shorter sentences, because the people may not have had such a good short-term memory as Maria Valtorta did.

Another interesting finding is the great similarity of the texts attributed to Jesus (Parables and Sermons and Speeches), a fact that should be expected in a real situation because this character, in both cases, allegedly speaks to a popular audience.

The comparison with the Italian literature is very striking. A single author, namely Maria Valtorta, seems to be able to write texts so diverse to cover the entire range of the Italian literature.

In conclusion, what do these findings mean? That Maria Valtorta is such a good writer to be able to modulate the linguistic parameters in so many different ways and as a function of character of the plot and type of literary text, so as to cover almost the entire range of the Italian literature? Or that visions and dictations really occurred and she was only a mystical, very intelligent and talented "writing tool"? Of course, no answer grounded in science can be given to the latter question.

As a final observation, the analysis performed in this paper could be done, of course, on other similar mystics' writings. This could help theologians, working in team with scholars accustomed to using mathematics in their research, to better study mystical revelations by mathematically studying the alleged divine texts.[/b]

Or, Prof. Leo A. Brodeur, M.A., Lèsl., Ph.D., H.Sc.D. Here is one prominent excerpt he wrote:

Arguments for a Supernatural Origin [For those who state] that Valtorta's writings were not supernatural in origin, did they investigate to see what kind of person Valtorta was? Had they done so, they would have quickly found that she was a good, earnest, devout Catholic, an invalid who had a deep prayer life and lived according to high moral standards. They would have found that she often claimed, explicitly, in no uncertain terms that she was having visions and dictations from Jesus and other heavenly persons, and that she fully realized the gravity of her claims.

Now had her visions and dictations been mere literary forms of her own deliberate invention, she would have been an unscrupulous liar; but this hypothesis is excluded by the testimonies of all the priests and nuns and lay people who knew her.

Or what if Valtorta had been insane and had imagined all those visions and dictations and mistaken them for real mystical occurrences (and thus escaped the accusation of being a hoaxer)? This hypothesis of lunacy falls flat in the light of her daily living during the years that she wrote. Within the limits of her physical handicaps, she functioned very well: she cared for people, kept up-to-date on current world events, wrote coherent, insightful letters, and had a witty, bright, keen mind as observed by all her visitors, some of whom were Church scholars or university educated laymen.

Or, Jean Aulagnier. Below is an excerpt of his findings from his book The Diary of Jesus:

Some, even sincere Catholics, may still have doubts about Maria's work. Is it an authentic revelation? Or is it just the roaming imaginations of a suffering mystical soul? After all, her writings could have been no more than personal reactions to her religious upbringing.

It is in this connection that a scientific approach to Maria Valtorta's work was timely. I thus began to analyze her writings with the same method that I had used in my previous historical research, which had yielded such positive results.

First of all, I noticed that Maria Valtorta's work consists of over 700 scenes. More than 600 concern Jesus' Public Ministry alone, which spanned approximately 1200 days. This gives us an average of one scene every second day. I sought to determine whether it would be possible to use these writings to establish a precise chronology of Jesus' Public Ministry.

There were three possibilities.

1. It might be possible to use Maria Valtorta's writings to establish a chronology that would be confirmed by all other historical data on the life of Christ. In this case, my test would 199 be successful. We would have an excellent reason to disregard the possibility that Maria Valtorta's writings were the result of her own imagination.

2. It might be possible to use Maria Valtorta's writings to establish a chronology that was internally consistent, but would contradict known historical facts.

3. It might be impossible to use Maria Valtorta's writings to establish any kind of chronology at all. In the last two cases, my test would fail since Maria Valtorta's writings would have little or no historical value. This, however, still would not mean that Maria Valtorta's writings were merely the fruit of her own imagination, since many mystical writings in the past did not have any particular historical value either. Furthermore, there is already evidence that Maria Valtorta's visions provide an accurate picture of Palestine in Jesus' time. She had never traveled to Israel or perused the literature of experts describing their archeological finds. Her writings were not revised by anyone else. Therefore, there is no explanation for the archeological and geographical accuracy of her writings except an intervention from the beyond. These factors exclude the possibility of a hoax or a mental disorder.

I proceeded with my research, and discovered that it was possible to establish the exact dates of the events described by Maria Valtorta. These dates do match all the historical data found in the Gospels and in other reliable sources. Her writings withstood the test of my complex analytical method, and my book reveals the chronology that I was able to derive.

There is no way that Maria Valtorta could have composed thousands of pages of fiction that would be so historically accurate.She only obtained the average education of well-to-do girls in early 20th century Italy. She never went to a university. She had no reference books at her disposal, except for the Bible and Pope Pius X's catechism. In spite of this, some of the things that she wrote are only known by Biblical scholars and experts on ancient Israel. She did not have a gift for long, involved calculations. Yet, by our standards, the Jewish calendar in Jesus' time was rather complicated, and it is impossible that Maria Valtorta could have imagined, let alone chanced upon, all kinds of chronological details that would stand up to historical scrutiny.[/b]

Or, David J. Webster who observed that Valtorta named nine towns and villages that were not discovered until after her death. He posted a landmark 31-page article that fundamentally proves the authenticity of Maria Valtorta's writings. The Poem of the Man-God may be the very first private revelation ever to be scientifically proven genuine. In that article, Webster summarized his findings. See below.

Of the staggering total of all 255 geographical sites from Palestine mentioned in the Poem 79 (all marked * &**) were not listed in the 1939 International Standard Bible Encyclopedia Atlas which represented the scholarship of her day. 62 (all marked **) of these 79 were listed neither by the ISBE Atlas or the 184-page 1968 McMillan Bible Atlas. Where did Maria Valtorta in the mid 1940's get all these names? Are they fictitious? Of those 17 missed by the 1939 ISBE but included in the 1968 MBA, 9 have been confirmed by an "ancient external source." Since then an additional 20 sites have been confirmed in the 1989 HarperCollins Atlas of the Bible. This is a total number of 29 confirmations of the original 79 unknown or obscure geographical 229 sites in Palestine mentioned in the Poem since the ISBE Atlas was published in 1939. 24 of these 29 do not even have an obscure reference in the Bible!

You can find and attempt to refute more conclusions found in A Summa and Encyclopedia to Maria Valtorta's Extraordinary Work.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Or we could just piss into the wind and save a lot of time, plus feeling better about ourselves afterwards.

[Nobody]

Does Soul really expect us to read that wall of text!?
😵

[Cassia]

LOL,
Just more claims from cult members. She shouldn't have known this or that, LOL. That's the way the all-powerful, all-knowing god spreads his good news to let's say the Chinese, for example. Have an Italian women write thousands of pages of fan fiction and have things in there "she should not have known". As if the sheer volume of bullshit makes it true.

There are hundreds of other fan fiction Jesus gospels from the first three centuries. Fanciful tales of personal revelation. Only a few of them made the official good book. And even these deemed sacred conflict on the most basic claims with each other. Non-cult experts with PHD's centered on the topics key to the many early religions from that region have concluded that Jesus's preaching was all about a failed apocalypse in his generation. I could post dozens of books and videos, but we all know that doesn't work on cultists.

Ask yourself why the all-powerful, loving god created a world where animals eat each other dead or alive. God loves his burnt flesh, right? Pray to him and ask he gives bone cancer to children. You are going to say it's all about free will. Think about that a little bit more. Children and animals suffering. Millions of years of suffering and 2k years ago a human sacrifice in an illiterate desert is the answer and a couple of accounts of magic tricks is the only proof.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Does Soul really expect us to read that wall of text!?
😵

Soulo is just trying to buy his way into Heaven by preaching to the heathens.

God knows this.

[Cassia]

Soulo is just trying to buy his way into Heaven by preaching to the heathens.

God knows this.

Probably and maybe some of his own don't agree on the "perfect words of the lord". Nothing divides people like religion. If we burned every holy book and every science book and stopped teaching, a few hundred years later all the religions would be new, and the science books would be the same as the ones we burned.

[Soul]

Does Soul really expect us to read that wall of text!?
😵

So, should I expect you to be willfully ignorant about the subject then?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

So, should I expect you to be willfully ignorant about the subject then?

You would find that some atheists are better read on religion than you are. They don't hide from "dissenting", AKA "evil", information. You're so polarized you can see through your navel, from the inside.