You must love me or else

[Soul]

Many of my relatives are snake handlers. A few die every year. More die from "industrial accidents", AKA exploding barns where school age kids work in meth labs. They all go to church, they all "believe in God." Doesn't seem to help.

What are you trying to say?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

LOL

[Soul]

LOL

No need to laugh at yourself, just clarify yourself.

[Cassia]

Soul,
Without using the bible, what is your best evidence or proof there is a god?

 -If you use the bible, you automatically fail.
 -If your evidence is trying to use god to explain gaps in our scientific knowledge to date, you fail.
 -If your evidence is personal feelings, you fail.

I'll put all the evidence for god that I know between these two lines
___________________

___________________
 
If you have nothing, good riddance, you are just another delusional magical thinker. I know you will fail otherwise you would already have a Nobel Prize.

[Soul]

Soul,
Without using the bible, what is your best evidence or proof there is a god?

Nature and the order in the universe. Look at the things of God with honest eyes and honest thought. You will see God shining there. Why examine the laws of lives and the secrets of the universe and not confess previously that this universe and these laws are the undeniable proof of a God?

But is all our progress capable of increasing the meadow which gives us its greenness by a single blade of grass? But is our science able to generate a new animal by departing from those laws which God has introduced since creating them as males and females? But, in spite of experiments, which fill one with vainglory, are we able, I won't say to create life, but to halt death?

No. We are able to fertilize the eggs of the simplest among the millions of existing animals. We are able to make the beating of an embryonic heart continue. But we are unable to maintain the beating of a dying heart when God tells the dust to become dust again and the soul to return to Him. Without seed we are unable to make a single blade of grass sprout. With all our electricity, we are unable to give energy back to a dead body. We are able only to generate diseases and death, massacres and misfortunes.

And as we are unable to do this, increasing only confusion on earth and in consciences, so we no longer manage to create in our interior that Faith without which error is inevitable. We go astray.

There's also the proof in support of Maria Valtorta's writings having been God-Authored.

And, scientists—to offer proof for one's incredulity regarding that proof of Jesus's suffering which is the Turin Shroud—explain the manner in which blood, cadaveric sweat, and an overstrained body, in being mixed with the aromas, were able to produce that natural painting of His lifeless, tortured Body. The Turin Shroud, for whoever is able to see, is not just a testimony that Jesus (God the Word Incarnate) truly died and rose again, but also testifies to the way He was conceived and born, not according to the laws of humanity. It is thus a confirmation of the truths that His Religion teaches: His being conceived through the action of the Holy Spirit, the Divine Maternity of Mary, Her perpetual virginity, His Passion and Death, and His glorious Resurrection.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

No need to laugh at yourself, just clarify yourself.

Lame.

[Cassia]

Soul,
Major fail. Intellectually bankrupt, magical thinking. You Are Dismissed.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

SSDD, Dx "chronic".

[Soul]

Soul,
Major fail.

How so? One of the examples of proof for God's existence that I gave was the writings of Maria Valtorta. Over the course of several years, she received from Jesus visions of scenes from His life on earth, and described them at length in writing as a first-hand witness. Jesus, through Maria, His instrument, or "pen", brings the Gospel to life, helps one to understand it more and live it out better. He also gave commentary on certain Gospel scenes. Her writings were later published into 10 volumes under the title The Gospel as Revealed to Me, or five volumes under the title The Poem of the Man-God. If I "failed", does that mean you were able to, for example, refute the conclusions of the following proof in A Summa and Encyclopedia to Maria Valtorta's Extraordinary Work in support of Maria Valtorta's writings having a supernatural origin?

• Proof by Astronomy (Such as Detailed Astronomic Observations Over the Course of Hundreds of Pages in Her 1940s Visions that a Purdue University Professor of Theoretical Physics Testified Are Remarkably Consistent with Her Dating System and that She Could Not Have Predicted or Verified Without a Computer)

• Proof by Geography and Topography and Archaeology (Including Her Describing Palestine and Over 350 Geographical Locations in the Holy Land with a Level of Precision in Multiple Fields that She Could Not Possibly Have Known Without Modern Electronic Scholastic Resources or Access to an Extensive Collection of Books/Atlases in the 1940s that Eyewitnesses and Common Sense Confirm She Did Not—Nor Could Have Had—Access to and Which Itself Arguably Would Have Been Insufficient to Complete Her Work)

• Proof by its Knowledge, Depth, and Eminence in the Theological, Exegetical, Mystical, and Mariological Fields (Which Many World-Renowned Trustworthy Theologians Say Exceed Anything They Have Ever Read)

• Proof by Her Detailed, Exact, and Often Unparalleled Knowledge of the Political, Religious, Economic, Social, and Familial Situation—as Well as the Dress—of the Ancient Jewish, Samaritan, and Roman Peoples that Astound Even World-Renowned Biblical Scholars

• Proof by The Poem's Unquestionable Expertise, Deep Knowledge, and Exhaustive Information in Such a Wide Variety of Theological and Scientific Subjects, and the Fact Almost 15,000 Handwritten Pages of Such Was Written in Only 3½ Years Amidst Her Unusually Severe Physical Condition and Illnesses and Even Though She Lacked the Learning, Resources, and Books Required to Write a Work a Tenth as Profound as This

• Proof by the Extraordinary, Unprecedented Way in Which it Was Written, Compiled, & Put Together (Such as the Fact that 166 Out of the 647 Chapters Were Written Out of Order, and She has Jesus Ministering in Over 350 Named Locations and Traveling Over 4,000 Miles in Six Different Cycles Across Palestine, and Yet Jesus and All of the Other 500+ Characters are Never in a Place Inconsistent with Either the Story Line or the Timing and Distance Necessities Required for Traveling, and There is Not One Person, Place, or Thing Out of Place)

• Proof By the Writing's Extraordinary Purity, Holiness, Loftiness, and Eminence Among the Writings that Exist in the World

• Proof (or a Substantiating Factor) by Research that Shows that The Poem is Not Based on (or a Mere Expansion of) any Known Gospel Manuscript Standard, Version, or School of Critical Thought, Something Expected if a Work of This Magnitude, Detail, and Accuracy Had Been a Mere Human Effort

• Proof (or a Substantiating Factor) in How The Poem Resolves Many Problems in the Gospel Accounts Which Scholars Have Struggled with For Years (Including Apparent Contradictions Between the Different Gospel Accounts and Apparent Errors or Inconsistencies Within the Same Gospel Account), and How It Furthermore Corrects Certain Misunderstandings and Translation Errors that Have Been Perpetuated Throughout the Centuries

• Proof (or a Substantiating Factor) by the Fact Maria Valtorta's Visions of Christ's Passion Perfectly Match Detailed Findings on the Miraculous Shroud of Turin that Recent Modern Scientific Tests Have Revealed Decades After Her Writings Were Published and the Fact Her Writings Foretold Something Amazing About the Veil of Veronica Which Has Been Scientifically Proven for the First Time Decades After Her Death

• Proof (or a Substantiating Factor) by its Perfect Correspondence to the Ancient Liturgical and Patristic Tradition of the Ancient Catholic Byzantine Rite of the Church

• Proof by the Testimony of Countless Trustworthy Clerics, Authorities, Experts, Scientists, and Pious Lay Faithful and the Tremendously Good Fruits Produced in Individuals and in the Church as a Whole

[Cassia]

LOL, a 1-minute search shows even the "Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith" declared Valtorta's writings as non-supernatural this year. From clergy like priest Padre Pio using carbonic acid to fake stigmata to shuffling pedophile priests around, I don't really care what Catholics say anyways. Anyone who remains a Catholic, supporting that immoral, corrupt church of untold riches should bow their head in shame.

As I told you personal revelations don't count as evidence. "I've seen attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion... I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain..."

Since you are born into sin, seem to need redemption via a ridiculous human sacrifice and want to be a pitiful slave to a celestial dictator, let's just stop here. I suggest you preach through a megaphone on a street corner far far away. Maybe go argue with a Muslim, you both have the same "evidence'. Bye.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

"Satan, Prince of Lies." Obvious who's sold their soul.

[Soul]

LOL, a 1-minute search shows even the "Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith" declared Valtorta's writings as non-supernatural this year.

Are you presenting the Dicastry of the Faith's press release as proof that Maria Valtorta's writings don't have a supernatural origin? And, did you even find out if they first reviewed the proof in support of her writings having a supernatural origin? Can you personally refute the conclusions of the proof in support of Maria Valtorta's writings having a supernatural origin, or name someone who has?

Maybe go argue with a Muslim, you both have the same "evidence'. Bye.

Then show me a Muslim with the same following proof as Maria Valtorta:

• Proof (or a Substantiating Factor) by Research that Shows that The Poem is Not Based on (or a Mere Expansion of) any Known Gospel Manuscript Standard, Version, or School of Critical Thought, Something Expected if a Work of This Magnitude, Detail, and Accuracy Had Been a Mere Human Effort

• Proof (or a Substantiating Factor) in How The Poem Resolves Many Problems in the Gospel Accounts Which Scholars Have Struggled with For Years (Including Apparent Contradictions Between the Different Gospel Accounts and Apparent Errors or Inconsistencies Within the Same Gospel Account), and How It Furthermore Corrects Certain Misunderstandings and Translation Errors that Have Been Perpetuated Throughout the Centuries

• Proof (or a Substantiating Factor) by the Fact Maria Valtorta's Visions of Christ's Passion Perfectly Match Detailed Findings on the Miraculous Shroud of Turin that Recent Modern Scientific Tests Have Revealed Decades After Her Writings Were Published and the Fact Her Writings Foretold Something Amazing About the Veil of Veronica Which Has Been Scientifically Proven for the First Time Decades After Her Death

• Proof (or a Substantiating Factor) by its Perfect Correspondence to the Ancient Liturgical and Patristic Tradition of the Ancient Catholic Byzantine Rite of the Church

• Proof by the Testimony of Countless Trustworthy Clerics, Authorities, Experts, Scientists, and Pious Lay Faithful and the Tremendously Good Fruits Produced in Individuals and in the Church as a Whole

[Cassia]

Ramblings of a bedridden person claiming to take dictation from angels does not count for evidence of anything. The same bullshit that brings us Mormonism. And being pattern seeking animals it's so easy for us to form conspiracy theory. Jesus and his 12 floundering baboons were content that disease was caused by demons. Seems Jesus didn't even know enough to wash his hands before eating. Jesus didn't seem to know figs are seasonal. Or is it all just allegorical stories told in a different language by unknow authors decades later. Why, yes it is.

And know our xtian soldiers/neofascists are at war with vaccines and science. Typical. Funny how these mystics never came up with anything like E=MC2 or cancer cures. It is a miracle that the supposed creator of the universe has to communicate through dreams and "revelations" to mystics or small sects of illiterates. Religion has no predictive power like science does. Jesus was an apocalyptic preacher who said the end would be in the time of those to whom he was speaking to. It is a abject failure and the back-peddling apologetics has gone on way too long.

The gods have retreated from the mountain top to the clouds to outer space and now outside of the universe. Your 2nd string god from the Levant is nothing special, your demons were just his earlier competition. There was no exodus, no ark with polar bears, no burning bush, no pigs infested with devils, no unicorns, no virgin birth, no census for Mary and Joe to hump it across Judea, no resurrection, no zombies rising from graves, no Apollo, no Romulus and Remus, no Harry Potter, no Scrooge...just people writing  stories. 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

They couldn't even count. Three days in the grave? 9pm Friday, Saturday, 9am Sunday. That's 48 hours.

[Nobody]

I wondered about that even when I was a believer.