You must love me or else

[Gawdzilla Sama]

No problem, the catlicker church requires you to be an idiot. No rational person would buy into this shit.

[Soul]

They couldn't even count. Three days in the grave? 9pm Friday, Saturday, 9am Sunday. That's 48 hours.

I wondered about that even when I was a believer.

Firstly, in ancient Israel, a new day began and ended at sunset. The Hebraic idiom "three days and three nights" means "approx. three days, and any event touching upon any part of the third day."

Secondly, when determining how long someone has been lifeless, you go by their time/day of death, not burial. According to the Evangelists, Jesus died at "the ninth hour" (3 pm) in the late afternoon on "Preparation day, the day before the Sabbath" (Friday) (Matt. 27:46;50, Mk.15:34;37;42, and Lk. 23:44;46), and the women disciples started walking to Jesus's sepulcher to anoint His body on "the first day of the week" (Sunday) when it was "beginning to dawn" and "still dark" (Matt. 28:1, Lk. 24:1, Jn. 20:1).

Thirdly, the Evangelists don't mention the exact time of Jesus's resurrection, but based on their accounts of the time/day of death (3 pm on Friday) and discovery of the empty tomb on Sunday morning, we know that Jesus wasn't lifeless for seventy-two hours, and that corresponds with Jesus's use of the Hebraic idiom "three days and three nights" meaning "approx. three days, and any event touching upon any part of the third day". This interpretation allows for variations from a strict seventy-two-hour time frame.

While the exact time of Jesus's resurrection can't be determined from what we have of the Evangelist's accounts, Jesus has made that detail known through His "pen" Maria Valtorta. She took dictation from Him and He said that His body had been lifeless for thirty-eight hours from His time of death of 3 pm on Friday (The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. V), which places His resurrection around 5 am on Sunday, and this corresponds with the Hebraic idiom "three days and three nights" (approx. three days, and any event touching upon any part of the third day), as well as the women disciples discovering the empty tomb on Sunday morning.

Thursday ends and Friday begins at sunset (Day 1)
Friday 3 pm: Jesus dies
Friday 3 pm to sunset: Jesus's Body remained lifeless

Saturday begins at sunset (Day 2)
Saturday: Jesus's Body remained lifeless

Sunday begins at sunset (Day 3)
Sunday sunset to 5 am: Jesus's Body remained lifeless
Sunday 5 am: Jesus resurrects

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Firstly, in ancient Israel, a new day began and ended at sunset. The Hebraic idiom "three days and three nights" meant a period of approx. three days, rather than a literal seventy-two hours.

How fucking convenient. Not at all retrofitted to cover up the stupidity.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

And you still have Friday night, and Saturday night, and outta there before dawn on Sunday. Stay stupid, you're almost entertaining that way.

[Soul]

How fucking convenient.

No, it's a little historical knowledge about ancient Israel.

And you still have Friday night, and Saturday night, and outta there before dawn on Sunday. Stay stupid, you're almost entertaining that way.

Again, the Hebraic idiom "three days and three nights" means "approx. three days, and any event touching upon any part of the third day", not a literal seventy-two hour period.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

It proves you can't do basic math, Sole.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

No, it's a little historical knowledge about ancient Israel.

Again, the Hebraic idiom "three days and three nights" meant a period of approx. three days, rather than a literal seventy-two hours.

Making shit up doesn't count as evidence, maroon.

[Soul]

Making shit up doesn't count as evidence, maroon.

You're willfully ignoring and lying about the meaning of the Hebraic idiom "three days and three nights", because for you it's about only accepting what you'd rather believe instead of the truth.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

You're willfully ignoring and lying about the meaning of the Hebraic idiom "three days and three nights", because for you it's about only accepting what you'd rather believe instead of the truth.

LOL, you're ignoring reality and sucking on a linguistic anomaly that you have no idea as to its meaning in the original.

[Soul]

LOL, you're ignoring reality and sucking on a linguistic anomaly that you have no idea as to its meaning in the original.

You're the one who assumed the meaning of "three days and three nights" in a piece of archaic text meant a literal seventy-two hours. And, when I informed you that it's actually a Hebraic idiom, you chose to not even bother to google and confirm that for yourself, and instead made the baseless assertion that I made it up. You did that because for you it's about only accepting what you'd rather believe instead of the truth.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The "actual Hebraic idiom"? Really. You speak it? No, you don't. You get this stuff shoved up your ass and it makes you smile.

[Soul]

The "actual Hebraic idiom"? Really. You speak it? No, you don't.

Your assumption that I don't speak Hebrew happens to be correct, but I don't need to regarding this, because a Hebraic idiom means "a phrase whose meaning is figurative, differing from the literal meanings of its individual words." "Three days and three nights" in Scripture is a Hebraic idiom meaning "approx. three days, and any event touching upon any part of the third day". Do you want to continue willfully refusing to confirm this for yourself on google? Or, would you rather remain in your ignorance and belief it means a literal seventy-two hour period in order to keep criticizing this "flaw" within Scripture?

[Soul]

Ramblings of a bedridden person claiming to take dictation from angels does not count for evidence of anything.

Maria Valtorta claimed to have taken dictation from not only angels, but Jesus, His Mother, and other heavenly persons too, as well as received visions. And, her major God-Authored Work titled The Gospel as Revealed to Me, or The Poem of the Man-God, wasn't concluded to be mere ramblings by numerous lay people and professionals who've read and analyzed the Work, such as Professor Emilio Matricciani and Dr. Liberato De Caro, who conducted an astronomical and meteorological analysis of Maria Valtorta's Work. See their findings below.

The richness of narrative elements contained in The Gospel as Revealed to Me (or The Poem of the Man-God) by Maria Valtorta has allowed to pursue both astronomical and meteorological studies, suited to verify as much as possible what she states. Indeed, Maria Valtorta affirmed to have witnessed in mystic visions the life of Jesus, and in particular his three years of public life, reporting detailed descriptions of landscapes, costumes, uses, roads, towns with their buildings (including the Temple in Jerusalem) and streets, rivers, lakes, hills, valleys, plantations, climate and rainfall rainy days, night sky with its constellations, stars and planets in the Holy Land, all information that should belong to a period of 2000 years ago. This is not possible from a rational point of view, but from this study a surprising and unexpected result emerges: Maria Valtorta narration seems to be not a fruit of her fantasy. In fact, thanks to a complex and rigorous astronomical analysis of the narrative elements present in her writings, it has been possible to determine a precise chronology of every event of Jesus' life that she tells us, even if no explicit calendar date is reported in her writings. In particular, this study has led to dating the crucifixion of Jesus in Friday, April 23 of the year 34, a date already proposed by da I. Newton.

Maria Valtorta has also recorded in the EMV the presence of rain and this has suggested to compare her observations with the current meteorological data concerning the number of rainy days in the Holy Land, as recorded by the Israel Meteorological Service (IMS), because this random variable, as shown, seems to be quite independent by the limited climatic changes that have characterized the Holy Land in the last 2000 years. What has emerged is, once more, surprising and unexpected because the annual and even the monthly frequencies of rainy days found in the EMV correspond to what we find today in the IMS data bank. It seems that she has written down observations and facts really happened at the time of Jesus' life, as a real witness of them would have done. The question arises, unsolved from a point of view exclusively rational, how all this is possible because what Maria Valtorta writes down cannot, in any way, be traced back to her fantasy or to her astronomical and meteorological knowledge.

In conclusion, if from one hand the scientific inquire has evidenced all the surprising and unexpected results reported and discussed in this paper, on the other hand our actual scientific knowledge cannot readily explain how these results are possible.

And, below are the findings from their mathematical analysis:

We have examined and studied the huge amount of literary works written by the Italian mystic Maria Valtorta, to assess similarities and differences. We have used mathematical and statistical tools developed for specifically studying deep linguistic aspects of texts, such as the readability index, the number of characters per word, the number of words per sentence, the number of punctuation marks per sentence and the number of words per punctuation marks, known as the word interval, an index that links the previous indices to fundamental aspects of the short−term memory of reader/listener.

The general trend obtained with statistical confidence tests is enough clear. The literary works explicitly attributable to Maria Valtorta (Autobiography and Descriptions) differ significantly from those of the literary works that, according to her claim, are attributable to the alleged characters Jesus and Mary, and when this is not true, as with the number of words per sentence, PF, (Figure 11a, right panel) and the word interval IP (Figure 12a, right panel), this happens only with Jesus says and Mary says. It seems that when Jesus and Mary allegedly speak directly to her, according to her claim, they adapt their communication to the capacity and robust processing time of her short−term memory. On the contrary, when Jesus speaks to a general audience (Parables and Sermons and Speeches) he adopts a significant lower word interval and shorter sentences, because the people may not have had such a good short-term memory as Maria Valtorta did.

Another interesting finding is the great similarity of the texts attributed to Jesus (Parables and Sermons and Speeches), a fact that should be expected in a real situation because this character, in both cases, allegedly speaks to a popular audience.

The comparison with the Italian literature is very striking. A single author, namely Maria Valtorta, seems to be able to write texts so diverse to cover the entire range of the Italian literature.

In conclusion, what do these findings mean? That Maria Valtorta is such a good writer to be able to modulate the linguistic parameters in so many different ways and as a function of character of the plot and type of literary text, so as to cover almost the entire range of the Italian literature? Or that visions and dictations really occurred and she was only a mystical, very intelligent and talented "writing tool"? Of course, no answer grounded in science can be given to the latter question.

As a final observation, the analysis performed in this paper could be done, of course, on other similar mystics' writings. This could help theologians, working in team with scholars accustomed to using mathematics in their research, to better study mystical revelations by mathematically studying the alleged divine texts.[/b]

Or, Prof. Leo A. Brodeur, M.A., Lèsl., Ph.D., H.Sc.D., the Director of the Valtorta Research Center, actively read, researched, and wrote in defense of Maria Valtorta's writings. Here is one prominent excerpt he wrote:

Arguments for a Supernatural Origin [For those who state] that Valtorta's writings were not supernatural in origin, did they investigate to see what kind of person Valtorta was? Had they done so, they would have quickly found that she was a good, earnest, devout Catholic, an invalid who had a deep prayer life and lived according to high moral standards. They would have found that she often claimed, explicitly, in no uncertain terms that she was having visions and dictations from Jesus and other heavenly persons, and that she fully realized the gravity of her claims.

Now had her visions and dictations been mere literary forms of her own deliberate invention, she would have been an unscrupulous liar; but this hypothesis is excluded by the testimonies of all the priests and nuns and lay people who knew her.

Or what if Valtorta had been insane and had imagined all those visions and dictations and mistaken them for real mystical occurrences (and thus escaped the accusation of being a hoaxer)? This hypothesis of lunacy falls flat in the light of her daily living during the years that she wrote. Within the limits of her physical handicaps, she functioned very well: she cared for people, kept up-to-date on current world events, wrote coherent, insightful letters, and had a witty, bright, keen mind as observed by all her visitors, some of whom were Church scholars or university educated laymen.

Or, Jean Aulagnier. Below is an excerpt of his findings from his book The Diary of Jesus:

Some, even sincere Catholics, may still have doubts about Maria's work. Is it an authentic revelation? Or is it just the roaming imaginations of a suffering mystical soul? After all, her writings could have been no more than personal reactions to her religious upbringing.

It is in this connection that a scientific approach to Maria Valtorta's work was timely. I thus began to analyze her writings with the same method that I had used in my previous historical research, which had yielded such positive results.

First of all, I noticed that Maria Valtorta's work consists of over 700 scenes. More than 600 concern Jesus' Public Ministry alone, which spanned approximately 1200 days. This gives us an average of one scene every second day. I sought to determine whether it would be possible to use these writings to establish a precise chronology of Jesus' Public Ministry.

There were three possibilities.

1. It might be possible to use Maria Valtorta's writings to establish a chronology that would be confirmed by all other historical data on the life of Christ. In this case, my test would 199 be successful. We would have an excellent reason to disregard the possibility that Maria Valtorta's writings were the result of her own imagination.

2. It might be possible to use Maria Valtorta's writings to establish a chronology that was internally consistent, but would contradict known historical facts.

3. It might be impossible to use Maria Valtorta's writings to establish any kind of chronology at all. In the last two cases, my test would fail since Maria Valtorta's writings would have little or no historical value. This, however, still would not mean that Maria Valtorta's writings were merely the fruit of her own imagination, since many mystical writings in the past did not have any particular historical value either. Furthermore, there is already evidence that Maria Valtorta's visions provide an accurate picture of Palestine in Jesus' time. She had never traveled to Israel or perused the literature of experts describing their archeological finds. Her writings were not revised by anyone else. Therefore, there is no explanation for the archeological and geographical accuracy of her writings except an intervention from the beyond. These factors exclude the possibility of a hoax or a mental disorder.

I proceeded with my research, and discovered that it was possible to establish the exact dates of the events described by Maria Valtorta. These dates do match all the historical data found in the Gospels and in other reliable sources. Her writings withstood the test of my complex analytical method, and my book reveals the chronology that I was able to derive.

There is no way that Maria Valtorta could have composed thousands of pages of fiction that would be so historically accurate.She only obtained the average education of well-to-do girls in early 20th century Italy. She never went to a university. She had no reference books at her disposal, except for the Bible and Pope Pius X's catechism. In spite of this, some of the things that she wrote are only known by Biblical scholars and experts on ancient Israel. She did not have a gift for long, involved calculations. Yet, by our standards, the Jewish calendar in Jesus' time was rather complicated, and it is impossible that Maria Valtorta could have imagined, let alone chanced upon, all kinds of chronological details that would stand up to historical scrutiny.[/b]

Or, David J. Webster who observed that Valtorta named nine towns and villages that were not discovered until after her death. He posted a landmark 31-page article that fundamentally proves the authenticity of Maria Valtorta's writings. The Poem of the Man-God may be the very first private revelation ever to be scientifically proven genuine. In that article, Webster summarized his findings. See below.

Of the staggering total of all 255 geographical sites from Palestine mentioned in the Poem 79 (all marked * &**) were not listed in the 1939 International Standard Bible Encyclopedia Atlas which represented the scholarship of her day. 62 (all marked **) of these 79 were listed neither by the ISBE Atlas or the 184-page 1968 McMillan Bible Atlas. Where did Maria Valtorta in the mid 1940's get all these names? Are they fictitious? Of those 17 missed by the 1939 ISBE but included in the 1968 MBA, 9 have been confirmed by an "ancient external source." Since then an additional 20 sites have been confirmed in the 1989 HarperCollins Atlas of the Bible. This is a total number of 29 confirmations of the original 79 unknown or obscure geographical 229 sites in Palestine mentioned in the Poem since the ISBE Atlas was published in 1939. 24 of these 29 do not even have an obscure reference in the Bible!

All these feats and more accomplished while bedridden and suffering from physical ailments that she shouldn't have been alive, and never having set foot in Palestine, much less read anything about it, even in ancient times, and so on. I highly recommend reading A Summa and Encyclopedia to Maria Valtorta's Extraordinary Work, especially the chapters on proof in support of her writings having a supernatural origin.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Your assumption that I don't speak Hebrew happens to be correct, but I don't need to regarding this, because a Hebraic idiom means "a phrase whose meaning is figurative, differing from the literal meanings of its individual words." "Three days and three nights" in Scripture is a Hebraic idiom meaning "approx. three days, and any event touching upon any part of the third day". Do you want to continue willfully refusing to confirm this for yourself on google? Or, would you rather remain in your ignorance and belief it means a literal seventy-two hour period in order to keep criticizing this "flaw" within Scripture?

That's called "weaseling" if you haven't heard it before. But if you haven't heard it before you've probably never said it before.

[Nobody]

Thanks for reading all that crap. Gawdzilla Sama, so I don't have to! Does Soul really expect people to read the idiotic blithering of an insane moron!?