You must love me or else

[Cassia]

Personally, I give Jesus a one in three chance that he was even historical. I notice the scholarship is changing slowly towards that direction. Not that it even matters. The gospels have unknown authors decades later who wrote in Greek, not Aramaic. The later they were written, the more detailed they get. Jesus has so may pagan god-traits, that alone should be unbearable for the masses, LOL.

Nobody was taking dictation. The historians of the time don't back up anything in the gospels (like the sun standing in place or zombies coming out of their graves"). They only record what the cult members were saying. Fair enough. People believe Joeseph Smith and his golden tablets dictated by the angel Moroni. Sure, they believed, some got killed for it. Then, Constantine made you believe, or else. Otherwise, all this would be gone by now.

None of the gospel writers said Jesus was a fair skinned blond. You would think they would mention that, LOL. That is obvious fascist Aryian propaganda. There are some fake middle age letters that say the same shit, of course. Because Christians are huge liars. Always have been, always will be. In fact, the most religious time are the DARK AGES. When morons reigned. Feudal bishops and warlords and serfdom. The rediscovery of reason and science is called "The Rennaissance" and later The Enlightenment. Theocracy was shunned in the West and people thrived.

Now we are headed back to the dark ages.

[Cassia]

Was it the part when Herod tried to tempt captive Jesus with his lascivious African dancing girls who "touch Christ lightly with their nude bodies" or is it the fair-hair and pale blue-eyed Nordic Jesus, Mary, Magdalene and John (Judas was dark of course) that has you believing? Perfect for the Jew hating fascist Maria who absolutely admires her stately Romans (proto-Italians) but when Jews show up: "Phew! Better so. We shall save streams of essences to remove their goatish smell from this place."

-------------------------------------
Or is it the homoeroticism?
Jesus: "It does not matter, John. It is all over"; and He caresses him.

Jesus smiles, sits on the rustic mattress made of foliage picked in the wood. He bends and kisses the cheek of John, who opens his eyes and is dumbfounded at seeing Jesus. He sits up and says: "Do you need me? Here I am"

"No. I woke you up as I did the others, but you thought it was your mother. So I kissed you, as mothers do".

John, half naked in his undertunic, because he used his tunic and mantle as bed covers, clasps Jesus's neck and lays his head between Jesus's shoulder and cheek saying: "You are more than a mother! I left her for You, but I would not leave You for her! She bore me to the earth. You are bearing me to Heaven"

Little Maria was twiddling her clit fer sure. See, that's why the other Jewish offshoot cult, the Muslims snip them off. Imagine what the pile of clits and foreskins would look like.

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When you indoctrinate little children with bullshit talking-snake stories, candle-lit cathedral halls with incense and organ music, give us money time, speaking in Latin, kneel-stand-sit, eat flesh, drink blood, kneel-stand-sit, and endless chanting, this is what happens. It's all part of the bullshit. Then the Protestants replaced some of that with yelling, creationism, screaming hell threatening sermons, snake handling, bullhorn screaming on street corners and really shitty pop music.

What a fucking joke. It is so disappointing. These morons will be the end of us (as we commit ourselves into the hands of Jesus, Mohammad, or the next made-up ass clown.)

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Firstly, I'm a female, not a male. Secondly, I had more of a conversation with Cassia than with you, because all you have offered is mostly willful ignorance and ad hominems.

And you haven't risen to that height with your imaginary friend, who appears to live in your scrotum.

[Soul]

None of the gospel writers said Jesus was a fair skinned blond. You would think they would mention that, LOL.

Even if the Evangelists did give that physical description of Jesus in their accounts, you still wouldn't accept it, because you consider them and all Christians to be liars. Therefore, it's amusing to me, and weird, to see you use them, whom you call liars, in your argument from silence (a logical fallacy), to refute the words of another Christian "liar". Additionally, on January 2nd, 1944, Jesus explained the following to Maria Valtorta:

It must be borne in mind that Galilee was not a vast world and that there were relatively few Galileans, who almost always married among themselves, and that bodily traits were thus repeated in two or three types which for centuries had been found over and over again on those faces. It would not be mistaken to say that in all the little towns, if one were to go back to the beginnings, two or three original family branches would be encountered which had married again and again among themselves, giving rise to a marked physical characteristic in the whole Galilean race.

It should thus cause no surprise that John [of Zebedee] displayed a physical resemblance to Me. He was a fair—haired Galilean—a particularity which was rarer than the case of the dark-haired Galilean, but which also existed. But his resemblance was even more marked as regards the spirit. (The Notebooks: 1944)

Was it the part when Herod tried to tempt captive Jesus with his lascivious African dancing girls who "touch Christ lightly with their nude bodies"?

Trying to pass off Sandra Meisel's words as your own? Tsk tsk. Your source, Miesel, said the following:

The Poem titillates with several invented subplots of "delicate" maidens barely escaping the Fate Worse Than Death and guilt-ridden harlots' descents into utter degradation. In one especially tasteless moment, Herod tries to tempt captive Jesus with his lascivious African dancing girls who "touch Christ lightly with their nude bodies." (V: p. 562)

So, all we have from your source is their baseless assertion of "several invented subplots of 'delicate' maidens barely escaping the fate worse than death and guilt-ridden harlots", and a partial quote from Maria Valtorta's writings, which, if she had quoted in full, wouldn't have given the impression she wanted. See excerpt below.

They untie His hands. And while a large number of servants bring amphorae and cups, some dancers come in...covered with nothing: a many-coloured linen fringe is the only garment girding their thin waists and hips. Nothing else. As they are Africans they are of bronze complexion and are as agile as young gazelles, and they begin a silent lascivious dance.

Jesus refuses the cups and closes His eyes without speaking. Herod's courtiers laugh at His disdain.

«Take the woman You wish. Live! Learn how to live! ...» suggests Herod.

Jesus seems a statue. With folded arms, closed eyes, He does not stir even when the lewd dancers touch Him lightly with their nude bodies.

«Enough. I treated You as God, and You did not act as God. I treated You as a man, and you have not acted as a man. You are mad. A white garment. Clothe Him with it so that Pontius Pilate may know that the Tetrarch took his subject to be mad. Centurion, please tell the Proconsul that Herod humbly presents his respect to him and venerates Rome. Go.»

And Jesus, tied once again, goes out, with a linen tunic reaching down to His knees, on top of His red woollen garment.

And they go back to Pilate. (The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. 5)

homoeroticism?

Jesus: "It does not matter, John. It is all over"; and He caresses him.

Jesus smiles, sits on the rustic mattress made of foliage picked in the wood. He bends and kisses the cheek of John, who opens his eyes and is dumbfounded at seeing Jesus. He sits up and says: "Do you need me? Here I am"

"No. I woke you up as I did the others, but you thought it was your mother. So I kissed you, as mothers do".

John, half naked in his undertunic, because he used his tunic and mantle as bed covers, clasps Jesus's neck and lays his head between Jesus's shoulder and cheek saying: "You are more than a mother! I left her for You, but I would not leave You for her! She bore me to the earth. You are bearing me to Heaven"

You got the idea of homoeroticism from your source, Sandra Miesel, who accused Maria Valtorta of writing homoerotica: "vaguely homoerotic flavor of Christ's frequent kisses, cuddles, and caresses of his disciples. So, according to you and your source's logic, when your mom gave you kisses, cuddles, and caresses, she was displaying homoerotica lol.

Personally, I give Jesus a one in three chance that he was even historical. I notice the scholarship is changing slowly towards that direction. Not that it even matters. The gospels have unknown authors decades later who wrote in Greek, not Aramaic. The later they were written, the more detailed they get. Jesus has so may pagan god-traits, that alone should be unbearable for the masses, LOL.

Nobody was taking dictation. The historians of the time don't back up anything in the gospels (like the sun standing in place or zombies coming out of their graves"). They only record what the cult members were saying. Fair enough. People believe Joeseph Smith and his golden tablets dictated by the angel Moroni. Sure, they believed, some got killed for it. Then, Constantine made you believe, or else. Otherwise, all this would be gone by now.

In fact, the most religious time are the DARK AGES. When morons reigned. Feudal bishops and warlords and serfdom. The rediscovery of reason and science is called "The Rennaissance" and later The Enlightenment. Theocracy was shunned in the West and people thrived.

Now we are headed back to the dark ages.

Ok? But everything below remains unaddressed by you:

Soul,
Again, there is nothing here but claims of personal revelation from supernatural sources.

That's a deliberate lie, because you know that I didn't present claims by Prof. Emilio Matricciani, Dr. Liberato De Caro, Prof. Leo A. Brodeur, M.A., Lèsl., Ph.D., H.Sc.D, historian Jean Aulagnier, and theologian David J. Webster of having personally received dictations and visions from God and other heavenly persons, but rather their analyses on Maria Vatorta and her writings, and their findings.

American academic Sandra Miesel found evidence that Valtorta used apocryphal and medieval texts in her work, suggesting her writings were a product of plagiarism.

Sandra Miesel is an American medievalist, writer, editor and fiction critic, and in this article of hers that you're referring to, she wrote the following:

Despite claiming a purely celestial origin, the Poem somehow incorporates legendary material from the Apocrypha (ex." The Acts of St. Paul and Thecla), The Golden Legend, The Meditations of Pseudo-Bonaventure, the revelations of St. Birgitta, [...]

I would've addressed examples, but she didn't present any, and, therefore, what good are those claims? And, why did you assert that Miesel had "found evidence" for those claims despite knowing that she didn't present any? Miesel also wrote the following:

(Is she borrowing from Carmen when Mary Magdalen tries to attract Jesus' notice by throwing a rose at him?)

In Bizet's opera Carmen, Carmen throws a red carnation at the soldier Don José in Act I to seduce him and convince him to let her escape after she is arrested for a fight. The Poem of the Man-God consists of visions of scenes from Jesus's life on earth that Maria Valtorta received and described in-depth. The vision that Miesel is referring to is the one received on February 5th, 1945, the chapter titled Jesus on the Lake of Tiberias. Lesson to His Disciples near the Same Town (The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. 4). Below is an excerpt.

A few small leisure boats, almost the size of a shallop, but fitted with purple canopies and soft cushions, cut across the course of the fishermen's boats. Shouts, bursts of laughter and the smell of perfumes go by with them.

They are full of beautiful women, many merry Romans, some Palestinians and a few Greeks. This I gather so from the words of a thin slender young man, as brown as an almost ripe olive, smartly dressed in a short red tunic, bordered by a heavy Greek fret and held tight at his waist by a belt, which is the masterpiece of a goldsmith. He says: « Hellas is beautiful! But not even my Olympic fatherland has this blue and these flowers. It is really not surprising that the goddesses left it to come here. Let us spread flowers, roses and our compliments to the goddesses, no longer Greek but Judaean...» And he spreads on the women in his boat the petals of magnificent roses and he throws some into a nearby boat.

A Roman replies to him: « Spread them, spread them, Greek! But Venus is with me. I do not spread roses, I pick them from this beautiful mouth. It is sweeter! » And he bends down to kiss the open smiling lips of Mary of Magdala, who is leaning on cushions with her blond head in the lap of the Roman.

In summary, a Greek man (not Mary Magdalene), threw roses on the women in his boat and in another nearby boat of his party (not at Jesus to attract His notice). Therefore, either your source, Miesel, deliberately lied about what Maria Valtorta wrote—especially considering that she didn't cite the volume and chapter of this scene which she was referring to—or she has severe poor reading comprehension. You should've first verified your source's claim before presenting it.

If her own writing "Hebrew wombs conceive vile perjurers. Roman wombs conceive nothing but heroes" isn't antisemitic enough for you, why am I talking to a fascist?

You're repeating the claim by your source, Miesel, who said the following:

Valtorta repeatedly compares Jews unfavorably with Romans: 'Hebrew wombs conceive vile perjurers. Roman wombs conceive nothing but heroes.' (V: p. 790)

The Poem of the Man-God consists of visions of scenes from Jesus's life on earth that Maria Valtorta received and described in-depth. The vision that Miesel is referring to is the one received on April 14th, 1947, the chapter titled The Apostles Go along the Way of the Cross (The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. 5). Below is an excerpt.

A group of legionaries, on their way to a nearby inn, meets them, and one watches them and points them out to the others. And they all laugh. And when the poor ill-treated disciples are compelled to pass before them, one of the soldiers leaning against the door addresses them: «Hey! Calvary did not stone you and men have struck you? By Jove! I thought you were more courageous! And that you were not afraid of anything, since you had the courage to climb up there. Have the stones of the mountain not reproached you for being cowardly? And were you so daring as to go up there? I have always seen guilty people run away from the places that reminded them of their sin. Nemesis pursues them. Perhaps she dragged you up there to make you tremble with horror today, since you did not tremble with pity, then.»

A woman, probably the mistress of the tavern, comes to the door and laughs. She has the frightening face of a rascal and she shouts in a shrill voice: «Hebrew women, look at what your wombs produce! Vile perjurers, who come out of their dens when the danger is over! Roman wombs conceive nothing but heroes. Come and drink to the greatness of Rome. Choice wines and beautiful girls.. .» and she goes away, followed by the soldiers, into her dark cave.

A Hebrew woman looks at them—there are some women in the street with amphorae, where one can hear the fountain gurgle near the house of the Supper room—and she takes pity on them. She is an elderly woman. She says to her companions: «They made a mistake... but a whole people did wrong.» She approaches the apostles and greets them: «Peace to you. We do not forget... Tell us only this. Has the Master really risen from the dead?»

«He has risen. We swear to it.»

«Then, be not afraid. He is God, and God will triumph. Peace to you, brothers. And tell the Lord to forgive this people. »

«And we ask you to pray that the people may forgive us and forget the scandal we have given. Women, I, Simon Peter, ask you to forgive me.» And Peter weeps...

« We are mothers and sisters and wives, man. And your sin is that of our sons, brothers and husbands. May the Lord have mercy on everybody. »

In summary, Maria Valtorta was quoting the words of a woman she saw and heard speaking to a group of Hebrew women and Roman legionaries when she wrote, "A woman, probably the mistress of the tavern, comes to the door and laughs. She has the frightening face of a rascal, and she shouts in a shrill voice: 'Hebrew women, look at what your wombs produce! Vile perjurers, who come out of their dens when the danger is over! Roman wombs conceive nothing but heroes. Come and drink to the greatness of Rome. Choice wines and beautiful girls...' and she goes away, followed by the soldiers, into her dark cave." Your source, Miesel, slyly claimed that "Valtorta repeatedly compares Jews unfavorably with Romans", followed by giving an example, which was her own alteration of the quote above, in order to make it sound as if it was Maria's own personal opinion: "'Hebrew wombs conceive vile perjurers. Roman wombs conceive nothing but heroes' (V: p. 790)." Grade A deceitfulness, but easily exposed to be just that, if one is an honest, objective investigator. You should've first verified your source's claim before referencing it.

Add to that a history of mental illness with Valtorta spending the end of her life in a state of catatonic schizophrenia.

You're referring to the following supposed quote by Fr. Benedict Groeschel mentioned in this article on the Catholic Answers website:

Miss Valtorta was a very devout and intelligent person. She spent the last ten years of her life in complete catatonic schizophrenia, unable to speak to anyone. This disease came on her gradually. It's important to realize that the progress of a disease like that may take many years before the acute symptoms occur.

I couldn't verify that quote, nor find any analysis by him on Maria Valtorta and her writings. Could you?

How do they know what Maria knew or didn't know? She was probably an autist "rain man", lol.

You'd know how they know if you read the analyses I copied and pasted and linked to. And, for your knowledge, naming unknown ancient towns and villages that were later discovered—as Maria Valtorta had done at least nine times, and in her case, they weren't discovered until after her death—is not a recognized feature of autism or savant syndrome.

Thanks, but I have seen enough.

You've shown yourself to be someone only out to seek validation for what you'd rather believe, rather than the truth, hence your refusal to attempt to refute the following in support of Maria Valtorta's writings coming from God, such as Prof. Emilio Matricciani and Dr. Liberato De Caro's astronomical and meteorological analysis of her Work, and their findings:

Maria Valtorta's narration seems to be not a fruit of her fantasy. In fact, thanks to a complex and rigorous astronomical analysis of the narrative elements present in her writings, it has been possible to determine a precise chronology of every event of Jesus' life that she tells us, even if no explicit calendar date is reported in her writings

It seems that she has written down observations and facts really happened at the time of Jesus' life, as a real witness of them would have done. The question arises, unsolved from a point of view exclusively rational, how all this is possible because what Maria Valtorta writes down cannot, in any way, be traced back to her fantasy or to her astronomical and meteorological knowledge.

...and the analysis and findings by Prof. Leo A. Brodeur, M.A., Lèsl., Ph.D., H.Sc.D:

[For those who state] that Valtorta's writings were not supernatural in origin, did they investigate to see what kind of person Valtorta was? Had they done so, they would have quickly found that she was a good, earnest, devout Catholic, an invalid who had a deep prayer life and lived according to high moral standards. They would have found that she often claimed, explicitly, in no uncertain terms that she was having visions and dictations from Jesus and other heavenly persons, and that she fully realized the gravity of her claims.

Now had her visions and dictations been mere literary forms of her own deliberate invention, she would have been an unscrupulous liar; but this hypothesis is excluded by the testimonies of all the priests and nuns and lay people who knew her.

Or what if Valtorta had been insane and had imagined all those visions and dictations and mistaken them for real mystical occurrences (and thus escaped the accusation of being a hoaxer)? This hypothesis of lunacy falls flat in the light of her daily living during the years that she wrote.

...and the analysis and findings by historian Jean Aulagnier:

Therefore, there is no explanation for the archeological and geographical accuracy of her writings except an intervention from the beyond. These factors exclude the possibility of a hoax or a mental disorder.

There is no way that Maria Valtorta could have composed thousands of pages of fiction that would be so historically accurate.

...and the analysis and findings by theologian David J. Webster, who observed, for example, that Maria Valtorta named at least nine unknown ancient towns and villages that were not discovered until after her death.