News:

Welcome to our site!

Main Menu

Sympathy for Anti-Vax/Maskers?

Started by Cassia, December 28, 2021, 01:01:42 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Cassia

Being a materialist and a mild determinist, I do sometimes wonder if these people deserve to be mocked. Nurses often report that they beg for the vax once they get the grim prognosis. They don't even know how a vaccine works. Do these people really even have a chance or choice?

I liken it to ghetto kids that end up in jail. The odds are overwhelming. The future is often portrayed as being unknowable. I think that maybe individual cases are unpredictable, yes... but a properly calculated probability will always play out over time, just like a flipped coin will approach 50% as N approached that sideways 8.

Are these people as much of a victim as anyone during this pandemic?

GSOgymrat

I'm frustrated by anti-vaxers but I try not to bash people. One reason is that there is an active disinformation campaign targeting these people and what should be a matter of public health has been politicized and polarized. Many people are fearful, frustrated, and exhausted and me waving my finger at people is not going to improve the situation. I'm not changing my mind on policy though-- if your employer says get vaccinated or be fired and you lose your job, that's your choice.

the_antithesis

I'm just quietly waiting for them to all die so the rest of us can get back to our lives.

Gawdzilla Sama

The anti-vaxxer should be put into a bubble on a sidewalk and left to die.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Jason Harvestdancer

There is a difference between someone who opposes the vax and someone who opposes the mandate.  I am severely allergic to the word "mandatory" yet I believe in vaccination.  Where do I fit on your spectrum?
White privilege is being a lifelong racist, then being sent to the White House twice because your running mate is a minority.

No Biden, no KKK, no Fascist USA!

Cassia

Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 28, 2021, 07:16:21 PM
There is a difference between someone who opposes the vax and someone who opposes the mandate.  I am severely allergic to the word "mandatory" yet I believe in vaccination.  Where do I fit on your spectrum?
But you have had several mandatory vaccines, yes? Be glad you didn't have to worry about polio growing up because people understood how to eradicate it. I know someone who put off their 'optional' tetanus shot. No offense there, Jesus (LOL) but that was some real suffering. Too bad he wasn't the son of a god.

Jason Harvestdancer

You didn't answer my question.  I believe in vaccines, I believe they are a good idea, but I don't believe in "mandatory".  This covers my position on many issues, where no matter how good the idea is I still don't believe it should be mandatory.

There are those out there who believe it is good it should be mandatory and if it is bad it should be forbidden.  I believe that no matter how good it is it shouldn't be mandatory and no matter how bad it is it shouldn't be forbidden.  (No irrelevant asides about rape or murder please, you know I'm talking about either solitary or consensual actions).

So given you are talking about Anti-Vax/Maskers, where do you classify pro-Vax/anti-Mandate?
White privilege is being a lifelong racist, then being sent to the White House twice because your running mate is a minority.

No Biden, no KKK, no Fascist USA!

PopeyesPappy

Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 28, 2021, 07:16:21 PM
Where do I fit on your spectrum?

It depends on your position on other things. For example, do you preach my house my rules until your employer tells you to wear a mask and get vaxxed or find another job then bitch about mandates and how dare they?
Save a life. Adopt a Greyhound.


Cassia

I am OK with all vaccine mandates as issued by the CDC thus far. The benefit to risk ratios are astronomically beneficial. If C19 was added to the list, so be it. There are plethora of mandated rules, laws and citizen's requirements such as selective service that need enforcement for obvious reasons. It is what us apes do..cooperate to survive. Its kinda our thing.

SGOS

I wear a facade of compassion for anti-vaxers around my friends, but I don't take one ounce of responsibility for their plight, and no, I don't care if they get sick or die.  They are fucking up everything, including their precious economy.  But I might feel different if they weren't so self righteous about their fucking rights while they trample on everyone else.  And I don't give them a pass because they are being fed misinformation. People choose the information they consume.

Mermaid

A family member is an ER doc and is incredibly traumatized by what he is seeing daily now.
I only have sympathy because some media outlets (and ELECTED OFFICIALS) are feeding people abject fucking garbage lies about Covid.
A cynical habit of thought and speech, a readiness to criticise work which the critic himself never tries to perform, an intellectual aloofness which will not accept contact with life’s realities â€" all these are marks, not as the possessor would fain to think, of superiority but of weakness. -TR

Mermaid

Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 28, 2021, 07:16:21 PM
There is a difference between someone who opposes the vax and someone who opposes the mandate.  I am severely allergic to the word "mandatory" yet I believe in vaccination.  Where do I fit on your spectrum?
You don't get a pass. Look beyond the end of your own nose and realize that this sort of stubbornness has deleterious effects on the population at large.
The resistance to vaccines has zero basis in anything but lies. There is no reason not to get vaccinated.
A cynical habit of thought and speech, a readiness to criticise work which the critic himself never tries to perform, an intellectual aloofness which will not accept contact with life’s realities â€" all these are marks, not as the possessor would fain to think, of superiority but of weakness. -TR

drunkenshoe

Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 28, 2021, 08:33:12 PM
...  I believe in vaccines, I believe they are a good idea, but I don't believe in "mandatory". ...

Then you do not understand how vaccines work.
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Jason Harvestdancer

Quote from: Mermaid on December 29, 2021, 08:55:04 AM
You don't get a pass. Look beyond the end of your own nose and realize that this sort of stubbornness has deleterious effects on the population at large.
The resistance to vaccines has zero basis in anything but lies. There is no reason not to get vaccinated.

But I'm not resisting vaccines.  I'm resisting mandates.

The thinking is that one either resists both or resists neither.  That thinking is incorrect.
White privilege is being a lifelong racist, then being sent to the White House twice because your running mate is a minority.

No Biden, no KKK, no Fascist USA!

Mermaid

Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on December 29, 2021, 09:40:00 AM
But I'm not resisting vaccines.  I'm resisting mandates.

The thinking is that one either resists both or resists neither.  That thinking is incorrect.
I am aware. I am not thinking along that vein and that is not what I said.

Whether you personally are not vaccinated or you are vaccinated is not germane to this discussion.

When I said you don't get a pass, I meant you collectively as in all of us who resist vaccine mandates, not you specifically.
We are all in this fucking boat like it or not. Everyone should suck it up or we all sink. Looks like that's exactly what's happening now.

We used to talk about herd immunity. Somehow that's not in the lexicon anymore because resistance to the vaccine has prevented that handily. Nobody has an excuse not to get the jab. Okay, maybe like 15 people in the country might. Being unable to get the vaccine has become the new gluten-free diet.
A cynical habit of thought and speech, a readiness to criticise work which the critic himself never tries to perform, an intellectual aloofness which will not accept contact with life’s realities â€" all these are marks, not as the possessor would fain to think, of superiority but of weakness. -TR