intro

[claytojar]

I'm a former Southern Baptist: and like most other sects: you never think you're wrong even when proven you are. Plus, if you're "fundamental" in your beliefs: in your mind you ARE never wrong. So please with the rhetoric.

-Nam

And you're any different now that you're an atheist, you surely don't believe you're wrong about God, so please enough with the rhetoric. I have some beliefs that are not what the typical Southern Baptist believes and some I disagree with are fundamental to Southern Baptist.
Examples, I do not believe in a firey hell, I believe in one that actually could be worse, I believe that a true believer can leave the faith and not believe in God anymore, this is a free will choice. I do not believe in the rapture that most Southern Baptist do. I could be wrong in each case, however I do not think so at this time. What I do know for sure, death will reveal the truth to everyone.

[Lion IRC]

...Faith is belief without evidence.  That's why they invented the word "faith".  They needed a word that described believing in something without evidence.

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-27935479

Scientists who claimed to have found a pattern in the sky left by the super-rapid expansion of space just fractions of a second after the Big Bang
say they are now less confident of their result.

Less confident of their result.

Confident - from the Latin con fide. With faith.

[claytojar]

...you know what, I'm too burned out to deal with this troll. And that IRCwhataver guy. You guys can have 'em. I'm turning on the block feature.

I'm not trolling, I'm replying to post directed to me, where's the problem with doing so, guess you do not understand trolling, time will help. If you want to block me by all means do, I came here to have intelligent conversation and if you do not, it keeps me from reading what isn't.

[PickelledEggs]

Yes faith is evidence, like I said faith is the evidence of things unseen, but maybe one needs some to understand what faith is.

Yes we do, it's the beginning of the knowledge of God.

When on is searching for something belief always comes first.

there's a God

[Nam]

claytojar,

Faith is the absence of evidence. Faith is believing in something without proof. To say "faith is evidence" is ridiculous, makes you sound ridiculous, and what you believe ridiculous. As I said above: people like you can never be proven wrong because in your mind: you're always right.

-Nam

[The Skeletal Atheist]

[Mr.Obvious]

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-27935479

Less confident of their result.

Confident - from the Latin con fide. With faith.

I'm at a loss at what is supposed to be the point of this post.

Is it to point out that we take things on faith? No. If science makes new and better observations and findings that contradict the old ones, the body of knowledge presented to us changes and from that our beliefs. If it turns out that the measurements described truly are faulty, we would not take on faith that they measured what they originally thought they'd measured. Our conviction would change due to the evidence presented.

Is it to point out that whenever scientists claim they are confident in their findings they are taking things on faith? Then no. You do realise that language is context-bound and evolves over time. Our languages which stem from languages spoken in a time before sience and especially the scientific-method existed, will of course show remnants of that age.

When scientists find out their observations and findings aren't as founded as they once thought, they lose confidence because the source-material proves less reliable. And their beliefs and convictions are derived from only what can be validated by the evidence. When holes are poked in religious theories, however, some people don't lose confidence, which is the illogical option. Some turn to self-warranting that confidence instead of finding a good observation from which justified confidence can be derived even if it does not flow with the original conviction.

[stromboli]

I'm at a loss at what is supposed to be the point of this post.

no, really? Having a discussion about religion with an individual thet readily admits they can't prove their viewpoint, call faith proof and insist there is evidence and doesn't present it, and you are looking for relevance? I think we are lost in the matrix on this one.

[Moralnihilist]

To the OP:

If you are here to proselytize, please don't. Just go away.
If you are here to convert us, please don't try. Just go away.
If you are going to spout some bullshit about god in every thread without any evidence to back up those claims, please don't. Just go away.
If you expect some sort of special case for your god to ignore reality, please don't. Just go away.


If however none of this applies to you, then welcome. I hope you enjoy your stay.

In regards to the way you have been greeted thus far. I have several questions for you.
1. Why is it that you can see that science makes assumptions(although based off of verifiable evidence) yet are unable to see that you are doing the same thing with your god(yet in this case you lack any evidence).

2. Why did you feel the need to announce yourself as a person of faith? To me, this signals you as a person who intends to put on their "holy armor" in the land of infidels and go converting. Or was it an attempt to get mauled in your opening thread so that you can go back to whatever christian forum/hangout claiming how intolerant we Atheists are?

3. Are you aware that we get literally hundreds of theists here every year? Some of whom actually make it here with out being a douche nozzle, others not so much.

4. Can you not see how tiring this would become? Year after year, having to explain over and over again, hearing the same tired ass "arguments" day in and day out.

Look Im not saying that you aren't welcome here. Im just curious as  to what your motives are.

[stromboli]

Look Im not saying that you aren't welcome here. Im just curious as  to what your motives are.

Which is what we always wonder. I think that theists come on here to enlighten us, not realizing that we know more about their religion than they do. Their attitudes are always somewhere between condescending and arrogant, regardless.

[claytojar]

To the OP:

If you are here to proselytize, please don't. Just go away.
If you are here to convert us, please don't try. Just go away.
If you are going to spout some bullshit about god in every thread without any evidence to back up those claims, please don't. Just go away.
If you expect some sort of special case for your god to ignore reality, please don't. Just go away.


If however none of this applies to you, then welcome. I hope you enjoy your stay.

In regards to the way you have been greeted thus far. I have several questions for you.
1. Why is it that you can see that science makes assumptions(although based off of verifiable evidence) yet are unable to see that you are doing the same thing with your god(yet in this case you lack any evidence).

2. Why did you feel the need to announce yourself as a person of faith? To me, this signals you as a person who intends to put on their "holy armor" in the land of infidels and go converting. Or was it an attempt to get mauled in your opening thread so that you can go back to whatever christian forum/hangout claiming how intolerant we Atheists are?

3. Are you aware that we get literally hundreds of theists here every year? Some of whom actually make it here with out being a douche nozzle, others not so much.

4. Can you not see how tiring this would become? Year after year, having to explain over and over again, hearing the same tired ass "arguments" day in and day out.

Look Im not saying that you aren't welcome here. Im just curious as  to what your motives are.

You should have read all my post, many questions you asked were unnecessary. As for telling everyone that I am a Christian to start things off is just honest. Being deceptive to start things off would have set a bad example and garnered no trust, there's little here as it is. What makes you believe I have any other motive other than to join in on discussions, that's what I stated and I've shown nothing different.

[claytojar]

Which is what we always wonder. I think that theists come on here to enlighten us, not realizing that we know more about their religion than they do. Their attitudes are always somewhere between condescending and arrogant, regardless.

You bailed out of Christianity, what makes you believe you know more about it than those who have stayed with it.

[claytojar]

claytojar,

Faith is the absence of evidence. Faith is believing in something without proof. To say "faith is evidence" is ridiculous, makes you sound ridiculous, and what you believe ridiculous. As I said above: people like you can never be proven wrong because in your mind: you're always right.

-Nam

I think I understood you the first time however, you didn't answer my question about you.

[stromboli]

You bailed out of Christianity, what makes you believe you know more about it than those who have stayed with it.

I did not "bail out" dumbass. You really are clueless. It takes a lot more guts to become an atheist- the 10-15% of the population- versus the 75-80% christian. I have a set of balls. The same set I had when I left the LDS Church previously, which lost me my family and my inlaws- because I had the guts to take a stand and stand for my beliefs.

Oh, and what about Bart Ehrman, former devout Evangelical, now agnostic, former pastor, highly recognized expert of biblical and Christian history? Heres the thread
http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=5341.0

Pointing out in his book "Forged" that 11 of 27 of the New Testament books were likely forgeries, shit like that. And pointing out that Jesus was not a mythical god but a human preacher, nothing more.

The difference between you and me is that I did what the bible said- ...."prove all things; hold fast to that which is true." (1 Thess. 5:21) I didn't take it for granted and I didn't buy into it without testing it.

Go ahead, truly test your faith. You haven't got the guts.

[Nam]

And you're any different now that you're an atheist,

The difference with me is: i became an atheist at 12-13 years old but didn't come out until i was 18 to my immediate family (my mother cried, cried more when she found out my brother was an atheist, too [i found out that when she did] and my sister became sn atheist at 11), and but to everyone else a few years after that. See, Christians only have "love" for Christians like them; especially SB's. Ever read the SBC handbook--what hate spews from that book.

you surely don't believe you're wrong about God, so please enough with the rhetoric.

I could be wrong that a god or gods exist, i am not wrong the "Christian" god doesn't exist and the biggest evidence one has for that is the multitudes of sects and revisions of the Bible they believe is the "inerrant word of God" that they keep changing to their own SPAG.

I have some beliefs that are not what the typical Southern Baptist believes and some I disagree with are fundamental to Southern Baptist.

Then you're not a Southern Baptist.

Examples, I do not believe in a firey hell, I believe in one that actually could be worse, I believe that a true believer can leave the faith and not believe in God anymore, this is a free will choice. I do not believe in the rapture that most Southern Baptist do. I could be wrong in each case, however I do not think so at this time. What I do know for sure, death will reveal the truth to everyone.

Sounds like a lot of opinions and guessing which equate to SPAG'ing. But don't feel alone: every single Christian SPAGs.

-Nam