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Will Putin Invade Ukraine?

Started by Cassia, January 20, 2022, 01:29:34 PM

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Hydra009

Quote from: Cassia on January 24, 2022, 05:20:48 PMNo matter what, it is a good plan by Putin to further divide the US after Trump got played and then the ruskie disinformation campaign. And if you like Trump you just might sort of like Putin as well. Trump is saying this wouldn't have happened if he was president. Uh....Crimea was the start, traitor moron.
To be honest, it's pretty odd that this didn't happen under Trump.  That would have been a golden opportunity for Putin, with its biggest adversary in disarray.

Shiranu

#31
Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 25, 2022, 10:08:06 PM
Which one are you expecting to nuke the other in a possible ware between Russia and Ukraine?

Russia and Ukraine are already at war; have been for about 8 years now.

"I don't care" doesn't change reality. Ukraine is a partner with NATO and thus has a tentative alliance with it... and until the United States pulls out of NATO we thus have an obligation to uphold those treaties. If conflict breaks out between NATO and Russia (which always remains a possibility when you have two armed forces staring each other in the eye), then nuclear warfare is not particularly a slim possibility; more likely would be a new age of cyberwarfare... which also doesn't respect who you pay taxes to or your personal freedom unless you live off the grid (which since your posting here likely isn't the case).
Every day is a good day to *remove from server* an autocrat.

Blackleaf

So the US has built up a defense and is prepared for the event of war. This is actually kind of scary. What is Putin hoping to accomplish here? If the US and Russia are forced to go at it, it can't end well. Maybe we'll both agree not to resort to nuclear weapons, but what if one side decides to do a pre-emptive strike on the other out of paranoia?
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville

Hydra009

#33
Quote from: Blackleaf on January 26, 2022, 07:34:14 PMWhat is Putin hoping to accomplish here?
Complete control over Ukraine seems likely.  I forgot where I read it, but essentially, Putin wants to get the Soviet bloc back together.  At the very least, keep these countries under the Russian sphere of influence, peacefully (as Belarus can attest) or through military force (as Georgia can attest).  Ukraine joining NATO would certainly be a huge setback to that.

Shiranu

QuoteI forgot where I read it, but essentially, Putin wants to get the Soviet bloc back together.

Yeah, I've seen that before as well and it honestly makes sense to me; imagine the legacy of an ex-KGB agent brining the Soviet Union back to it's former glory? He would be immortalized, and when you look at photoshoots of him and his behavior at home... he really seems to be a deeply narcissistic man obsessed with his image. Hell, he might even surpass Stalin and Lenin if he achieved that.
Every day is a good day to *remove from server* an autocrat.

Cassia

Quote from: Shiranu on January 26, 2022, 09:06:06 PM
Yeah, I've seen that before as well and it honestly makes sense to me; imagine the legacy of an ex-KGB agent brining the Soviet Union back to it's former glory? He would be immortalized, and when you look at photoshoots of him and his behavior at home... he really seems to be a deeply narcissistic man obsessed with his image. Hell, he might even surpass Stalin and Lenin if he achieved that.
I always thought the Western allies missed an opportunity to get with Russia during the first few years after the USSR crumbled.

Hydra009

#36
Quote from: Cassia on January 26, 2022, 09:30:20 PMI always thought the Western allies missed an opportunity to get with Russia during the first few years after the USSR crumbled.
Yeltsin.  On one hand, he helped make sure the USSR's collapse was as painless as possible and helped Russia transition towards democracy.  On the other hand, he oversaw the rise of the oligarchs, corruption exploded, took Russia on a warpath that it has yet to stray from (not just externally, but internally, as in the Black October), and hand-picked Putin.  Definitely set the stage for the rapid deterioration of Russia's nascent democracy into the oligarchy/strongman system they have today.

Jason Harvestdancer

Quote from: Shiranu on January 26, 2022, 01:30:54 AM
Russia and Ukraine are already at war; have been for about 8 years now.

Well then, that increases the relevance of my question, as it does from "if they go to war" to "they are at war".  Which one are you expecting to nuke the other?
White privilege is being a lifelong racist, then being sent to the White House twice because your running mate is a minority.

No Biden, no KKK, no Fascist USA!

Cassia

Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 27, 2022, 08:45:40 PM
Well then, that increases the relevance of my question, as it does from "if they go to war" to "they are at war".  Which one are you expecting to nuke the other?
Every war plan is obsolete the minute the war starts. A missile wanders off at hits a NATO aircraft and we go to DEFCON 1.

Hydra009

Quote from: Cassia on January 27, 2022, 08:55:28 PMEvery war plan is obsolete the minute the war starts. A missile wanders off at hits a NATO aircraft and we go to DEFCON 1.
Hey now, there's no way that the Russian military would possibly engage anyone but their primary target.  Not a dutch passenger plane full of civilians, not Turkish forces, and definitely not US forces.  They're laser-focused and totally professional and there's no way they could possibly cause a serious international incident and potentially trigger a serious military confrontation.

Shiranu

Quote from: Jason Harvestdancer on January 27, 2022, 08:45:40 PM
Well then, that increases the relevance of my question, as it does from "if they go to war" to "they are at war".  Which one are you expecting to nuke the other?

Neither, thought you could read past one line.
Every day is a good day to *remove from server* an autocrat.

Jason Harvestdancer

Quote from: Shiranu on January 27, 2022, 11:44:42 PM
Neither, thought you could read past one line.

In post # 16, you replied to my statement about how this isn't our concern by saying nuclear fallout doesn't care about national boundaries.  You were warning that we have to get involved because otherwise there might be nuclear fallout.

If we don't get involved in the Ukraine-Russia conflict, which country are you expecting to nuke which other country?
White privilege is being a lifelong racist, then being sent to the White House twice because your running mate is a minority.

No Biden, no KKK, no Fascist USA!

Hydra009

Jason, literally everyone else figured out that there's a real possibility of escalation and NATO forces (of which several have nukes) could get into it with Russia, which also has nukes.  I pieced that together within a couple seconds of reading Shiranu's post.  Days later, I'm having to bluntly point this out to you so that you finally understand.

drunkenshoe

#43
I didn't know what Defcon is. So it says 9/11, for 3 days Defcon 3, 2 stanby. Nuclear hit on allies, Defcon 1 I guess. I wonder what's alien invasion.  :welcome: :p
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are good people and bad people. You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides." Havelock Vetinari

Mike Cl

Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 29, 2022, 10:41:06 AM
I didn't know what Defcon is. So it says 9/11, for 3 days Defcon 3, 2 stanby. Nuclear hit on allies, Defcon 1 I guess. I wonder what's alien invasion.  :welcome: :p
Defcon 1/2.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?