A Fertilized Egg Isn't a Person

Started by FrankDK, June 27, 2013, 02:09:11 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

FrankDK

This is obvious to any thinking person, but I have thought up an argument that might even work with Christians.

Identical twins are two different people; they are not two halves of one person.  Twins result from the splitting of an embryo, which occurs after the egg has been fertilized and implanted.  If the egg became a person upon fertilization, identical twins would each be half of one person.

Frank

Hydra009

I can verify that firsthand.  I am not half a person.   [-(

Nonsensei

Except they dont say an egg becomes a human upon fertilization. They say human life begins at conception. In that minor wording difference lies the way out of your logic trap.
And on the wings of a dream so far beyond reality
All alone in desperation now the time has come
Lost inside you\'ll never find, lost within my own mind
Day after day this misery must go on

FrankDK

> Except they dont say an egg becomes a human upon fertilization. They say human life begins at conception. In that minor wording difference lies the way out of your logic trap.

Not really.  Conception and fertilization are essentially the same.  This from the Free Dictionary:

con·cep·tion  (kn-spshn)
n.
1.
a. Formation of a viable zygote by the union of the male sperm and female ovum; fertilization.
b. The entity formed by the union of the male sperm and female ovum; an embryo or zygote.

And even if they try to split hairs and claim that conception occurs at implantation, splitting of the zygote in monoplacental monozygotic twins occurs after implantation, so the argument still holds.

Besides, there are many claims, including those in anti-abortion laws, that state human life begins at fertilization:

http://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/artic ... otes2.html
Life Begins at Fertilization
The following references illustrate the fact that a new human embryo, the starting point for a human life, comes into existence with the formation of the one-celled zygote:

http://www.prolifephysicians.org/lifebegins.htm

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... n/2058515/
TOPEKA, Kan. (AP) — Kansas legislators gave final passage to a sweeping anti-abortion measure Friday night, sending Gov. Sam Brownback a bill that declares life begins "at fertilization"

Frank

Youssuf Ramadan

Quote from: "Nonsensei"Except they dont say an egg becomes a human upon fertilization. They say human life begins at conception. In that minor wording difference lies the way out of your logic trap.

And it would appear that God shitcans the majority of fertilized eggs, making him the biggest abortionist of the lot.    :lol:

FrankDK

> And it would appear that God shitcans the majority of fertilized eggs, making him the biggest abortionist of the lot. :lol:

That always struck me as the strongest argument for allowing abortion.  If God does it, it must be good.

Frank

Youssuf Ramadan

Quote from: "FrankDK"That always struck me as the strongest argument for allowing abortion.  If God does it, it must be good.

Frank

'Mysterious ways?'  :D/

Raynot

Quote from: "Nonsensei"Except they dont say an egg becomes a human upon fertilization. They say human life begins at conception. In that minor wording difference lies the way out of your logic trap.
Perhaps you meant "They don't say that an egg becomes a person upon fertilisation."
Both sperm and eggs are living, and they are human cells, so they are always going to be human life as long as they remain viable. That doesn't make them persons. And arguably, it takes more than a fertilized egg to be a person.

BlackL1ght

If christians weren't so against birth control (unless they themselves need it) I might understand their position a bit more. However, as things are, their stance on birth control makes necessary more abortions. If they really wanted to stop abortions, they would be handing out birth control like candy. Of course, they can't get caught *gasp* having sex, so it's not terribly likely that that will happen.
Vi veri Veniversum Vivus Vici

Jason78

Quote from: "FrankDK"A Fertilized Egg Isn't a Person

No more than a fertilised chicken egg is a whole chicken.
Winner of WitchSabrinas Best Advice Award 2012


We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real
tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

Plu

QuoteExcept they dont say an egg becomes a human upon fertilization. They say human life begins at conception. In that minor wording difference lies the way out of your logic trap.

But if human life begins at conception, then when does the second human life of an identical twin begin? There is only one conception, so that can't be the full story.

Mermaid

Quote from: "BlackL1ght"If christians weren't so against birth control (unless they themselves need it) I might understand their position a bit more. However, as things are, their stance on birth control makes necessary more abortions. If they really wanted to stop abortions, they would be handing out birth control like candy. Of course, they can't get caught *gasp* having sex, so it's not terribly likely that that will happen.
It was recently explained to me that children are not ours. God gives them to us and entrusts us with them. They are God's children. BC is wrong because it keeps God from giving you the children He wants to give you. It is not our job or place to intervene. Abortion is wrong because it kills the children God gives you. If God gives you a child, it is your responsibility to take care of His child.
I just nodded and smiled a vapid smile at him.
A cynical habit of thought and speech, a readiness to criticise work which the critic himself never tries to perform, an intellectual aloofness which will not accept contact with life’s realities â€" all these are marks, not as the possessor would fain to think, of superiority but of weakness. -TR

AllPurposeAtheist

You do realize these legislatures don't give a rats ass what happens after being born. They're so worried about fetus's, but once born if the cat drags the kid off and eats it then it was just gods plan..
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Mermaid

Quote from: "AllPurposeAtheist"You do realize these legislatures don't give a rats ass what happens after being born. They're so worried about fetus's, but once born if the cat drags the kid off and eats it then it was just gods plan..
Yup. More than once while working in South Texas, I saw bumper stickers that said "If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em".

They are God's precious children until they shoot out of the mother's vagina, and then the automatically become welfare trash that you don't want to have to worry about.
A cynical habit of thought and speech, a readiness to criticise work which the critic himself never tries to perform, an intellectual aloofness which will not accept contact with life’s realities â€" all these are marks, not as the possessor would fain to think, of superiority but of weakness. -TR

AllPurposeAtheist

Put cats to death. Texas hates cats anyway, but seems to love rats.. I guess I should have said if a rat drags the kid off it's just gods plan. Cats are satanic in nature..
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.