All lives matter?

[Blackleaf]

Some ideas demand ridicule, particularly when they come from people who will never change their minds, but he is not wrong. drunkenshoe's insults frequently turn me off from his arguments to the point that I can't be bothered to respond. For everything, one must find balance.

[PickelledEggs]

Or BLM is just another tool in the box to further destabilize society?

A tool? Not an intentional one. It is dividing people more than they think. It's kind of like how this third-wave feminism trend is an attempt for handouts and to become a protected and immune class, but branded for african americans.

[PickelledEggs]

You're not very good at forming your own thoughts, are you? You tend to just spit out everything you eat up from the internet... and then you post memes, when you can't think of text to copy and paste.

[drunkenshoe]

Try making your point whitout  personal attacks. I know it is difficult for you, but try.
People will respect your posts more if you do.
The aim is to exchange ideas, not insults. Behave!

Ah if it is your aim to exchange ideas, FIRST you NEED TO LEARN THOSE IDEAS you are refering to before promoting political social media bullshit on them.

Yes, it is very difficult for me to tolerate bullshit sometimes. When I offer some opinion, I actually have a good idea what I am talking about.

Respect? Please, pr. Popularity has nothing to do with reality and your only chance here in this forum is to appeal to certain 'emotions' and mainstream bullshit so someone would actually post to your thread.

And please don't insult me by your personal concept of 'respect'.

[drunkenshoe]

You're not very good at forming your own thoughts, are you? You tend to just spit out everything you eat up from the internet... and then you post memes, when you can't think of text to copy and paste.

Well, I haven't see you forming any thoughts either, Pickel. What you are doing -and a few others- is just squabbling with a specific poster thread by thread based on his general stance just because you don't like it. It's not like you have some reasonable explanation, but rather a simple reaction to something you don't like.

What is your argument exactly? Drop sarcasm and make a point. No, you haven't made any points in other threads, you have just come up with ready commercial lines we all have heard before. Draw me a picture, explain what you think and why on what issue and what has been happening about this issue as a whole, so I could understand this point of yours and others' that you like to act as if you got to the bottom of it. *Snort

You just look like a bunch of dumb, polite, right wing assholes spitting -from a distance- at a kid who doesn't agree with you.


So what's up, boys? What is it that you actually don't agree or agree here? What is the fucking argument?

[PickelledEggs]

I made my point many times. In this and other threads. The Black Lives Matter movement has constructed a toxic community and divides more than it thinks it unites. It only creates more hostility. It's a shitty movement and the slogan "black lives matter" is a shit slogan that is unclear to what it's intentions are.

I agree with some of it's points, but it's severely mislead in many of it's goals and their approach to their goals. My gripes with the BLM movement are very similar to the third wave feminism movement.

Sorry you can't understand that though.

[PickelledEggs]

I've stated the issues with this movement in this thread, as did a few other people. Please try and read before you knee-jerk. ;)

[GSOgymrat]

So what's up, boys? What is it that you actually don't agree or agree here? What is the fucking argument?

Are you asking me to clarify what I have written?

[PickelledEggs]

I find it interesting that just because we're not taking an extreme far-left stance on this, we seem like we're far right. I guess everything loser to being centrist would seem far right to an extreme left stance.

[PickelledEggs]

Another thing that is a good indicator that this BLM movement is shit, is it's absolute refusal to own up to it's flaws. Black on black crime? Ignore it. Battle cry for dead cops in parade form? Ignore it.


It's a toxic ideology that needs criticism.

[drunkenshoe]

I made my point many times. In this and other threads. The Black Lives Matter movement has constructed a toxic community and divides more than it thinks it unites. It only creates more hostility. It's a shitty movement and the slogan "black lives matter" is a shit slogan that is unclear to what it's intentions are.

I agree with some of it's points, but it's severely mislead in many of it's goals and their approach to their goals. My gripes with the BLM movement are very similar to the third wave feminism movement.

Sorry you can't understand that though.

I can't understand? Get your head out of your ass. If you can't, remember that you don't need to respond everything that has your name on it. After all, if you are criticising the reactions of the protests of a minority group, at least check your reactions to the simple little remark in an internet forum while you are constantly pitching your annoyance to some real life people. You get pissed off by videos made for 15 year old girls, kiddo. Get real.

No, you haven't put anything on here. None of you have. All you do is whining about something perfectly 'normal' that has been going for thousands of years.

See, "This movement is toxic, it is hostile, but I agree with some of its points, but I don't like it" is not enough. Neither is it a response. All you are reacting is the FEAR. The uncomformism of it. There is an issue. A very serious domestic issue of races that has been going through for a loooooong time. None of you -or me- is living nor has lived the consequences of this issue(s). But what you have been doing though is sitting down in front of your computers and throwing about how fucking wrong a group of black people are reacting to this issue. That is it. Your personal emotions and your personal experiences.


Could you please tell me,

-How should they react?

-How should they protest?

-How should they talk, advertise, appeal...etc.

-How should they behave in or out of protest?

-What kind of a group they should build that wouldn't get affected from any kind of politcial bullshit?

-Is that possible? Has it ever been possible?


What is your argument? How should Black Lives Matter be/do/behave...etc...what is your dream about their protest as a white fucking citizen who gets annoyed by 'why feminism isn't about compliments or catcalls' videos or a series of posts one poster made around a general stance which you hate; in his case being a Social Justice Worker?

"I hate it, I don't want them to act this way" is NOT criticism. That's your point. You are not producing some sort of an explanation or an argument about the issue, Pickel. You are coming from your general, SJW hatred knee jerk reaction or whatever groups you kids get angry to these days, I can't keep track, sorry.

You don't thave a personal opinion or some point of view. All your interest about this issue because it is in the fucking social media. You have never been in a group like this; you have never been in a position, condition, situation to desire to join a group of the sort. Never. You have never had the issues they had that most of you believe don't even exist. All you do is getting scared and telling each other how wrong all this is because you don't like it and how that might threaten your safe space. SAFE SPACE. Your SAFE SPACE. That is the problem.

A reminder: You are saying the same thing for ALL the groups which are completely different from each other. And you are one group. Repeating the same thing over again. 

Surprise for westen kiddos, there is no other way of any group to protest to be taken seriously. None. Frankly, if you are not angry, you are not going to be there. From French Revolution to any other countless domestic revolution you are not even aware your society/culture went through happened the same way. Violence. Actually genocide. There is NO change without violence. VIOLENCE. Do I like it? I hate it. However, my personal feelings have nothing to do with it.

But while you are supposedly criticising 'safe spaces', 'political correctness' and what not, you are completely living in the very politically correct safe spaces without recognising what the fucking is going on.

This is not something I agree, nor I defend it. All my point is that this is how this shit goes down; has alwyas has gone down and always will do. You are acting like a cat that has seen it ass hole for the fist time and thinks that it is fucking cancer.

There is NO other way. STOP WHINING about it. Offer something real, if you can. You are not going to write human culture over again. There WON'T be any peaceful groups that will take any rights or status they desire by playing guitars, giving away flowers or making funny, witty videos. Rights and status are not given, they are taken. And they will take it. What I feel about it, what you feel about it have no importance at all.

All these groups are threatening and violent to you though they are all completely different; they are alien, dangerous, because you are out of that world. Because you are living in another. Doesn't matter how hard you stomp your foot down, how many videos you post, how deep you whine you are a heterosexual white male. Get jakced up all you want and embrace your adopted victimhood. That's the fucking reality. Do you know any white male groups any other than the sub reactive of the feminist in general? No, you don't. Guess why. Or get angry about it.

Yes GSO is not a het. But he is white. And again doesn't matter what you believe, this is how this groups and movements develop. And if you do not have a million choices you can offer to a group like Black Lives Matter, just stop looking down on them. See, I want to see criticism. But that's not criticism.

We are not in some political climate to defend a passifist angle either. Just alone Trump is enough to get people radicalised to go out with guns and kill. Are you aware of that? Why not? Could that be because even if Trump was to be president you wouldn't get any shit on your way? Hmm. You wouldn't. But guess what? For a lot of people this aint the case. Not to mention what was life before even in the best case.

Could you please tell me, how stupid you need to be to expect people to act like hippies, NOW, when everything is so worked up deliberately? What do you think they would do?

You are living in fantasy. GET DOWN TO EARTH.

[drunkenshoe]

Are you asking me to clarify what I have written?

No. I am saying 'This is how this shit goes down, bro. Stop whining about it, because under these circumstabces it is not criticism, but just blah blah blah.' Frankly, it is bullshit. 

[Baruch]

Groupthink is even worse. Holy shit. I thought colleges were supposed to encourage people to use critical thinking.

You are misinformed.  College is paid for by government.  Government wants good citizens who follow the current propaganda.  That is why one political wing wants to burn the colleges down, if they can't control the policy.

[Baruch]

A tool? Not an intentional one. It is dividing people more than they think. It's kind of like how this third-wave feminism trend is an attempt for handouts and to become a protected and immune class, but branded for african americans.

But you say that Democrats are the only one's to save us from this ... they feed on it.

[GSOgymrat]

No. I am saying 'This is how this shit goes down, bro. Stop whining about it, because under these circumstabces it is not criticism, but just blah blah blah.' Frankly, it is bullshit. 

Yes GSO is not a het. But he is white. And again doesn't matter what you believe, this is how this groups and movements develop. And if you do not have a million choices you can offer to a group like Black Lives Matter, just stop looking down on them. See, I want to see criticism. But that's not criticism.

What I'm hearing you say is "You're white, you can't understand the lives of black people, this is the way social change happens, you are not offering a solution, shut up." So apparently I can't understand the lives of black people. Most of them probably can't understand me. You certainly don't. How can you possibly understand what it was like growing up gay in the South in the 70's and 80's, when gays were arrested for "crimes against nature" and had their names listed in the local paper just for asking a guy out? Black people's families are black and share their experience as a black person, where gay people's families are not typically gay and often do not support you-- they sometimes disown you or send you to a psychiatrist so you can be "fixed." How can you understand what it is like being diagnosed with AIDS back before their was effective treatment, seeing your twenty-something year old friends die, knowing you're next, or your partner who gave you the virus is next, obsessing over every cough, every little purple bump, knowing people believe you and your friends deserve this, knowing the government is ignoring the problem? Black people get looked with suspicion, where I've had healthcare workers not want to touch me, much less regular people. I've participated in ACT UP, fought pharmaceutical companies, marched, protested, written letters to congress. I've been down the road of social activism. You don't know me. People like you don't get to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.

You are correct that BLM is following the life cycle of similar social movements. There is a place for marching, a place for outrage, a place for challenging the status quo. There is also thinking strategically, going beyond raising awareness, setting concrete goals, winning hearts and minds, pointing out commonality rather difference, demonstrating that we are all in this together. To do the later you have to be willing to release your grip on some of the labels, expand your group, change how you see yourself so other people can see you differently. Identity politics is one way to look at a situation but not the only way and I criticize people who are so committed to that ideology they cannot see alternatives. Identity politics can only take you so far and it has the real problem of doing exactly what I did in the first paragraph-- constantly dividing people into ever narrowing groups of identity, where the individuals who have suffered the most are deemed the most virtuous, and so cling to that suffering. I know this because I've lived it.