Sanders supporters, what are you doing for your plan b?

[widdershins]

My main gripe with her (besides the assorted scandals and issue flip-flopping more indicative of political expedience than "evolving" one's stances) is that you can ask her a direct question and get a bunch of bullshit in response.  It's extremely off-putting and I can't blame you for staying home on election day.

This is EXACTLY what made me hate her in her match-up with Obama.  I don't remember the exact debate or words used, but for one moment in one of the debates it became utterly obvious that she was nothing more than a lawyer trying to win an argument in the debate, not at all sincere, and his response was that of an ordinary person.  I wish I could remember the wording, but she was doing some word play with him, something along the lines of "you refuted X but you didn't condemn X" (pretty sure that's not right, but as close as I can remember) and his response was simply, "Okay, then I condemn X" like an ordinary person would when some bitch was playing head games with them.  For me, it was a powerful moment, the moment I decided that I really didn't like her that much.

Since then, however, I have realized that what I liked in Obama was his biggest weakness.  He was honest and sincere.  Politicians can't be honest and sincere.  The American people actually DEMAND that our politicians lie to us, as absurd as that sounds.  When they are asked a question, we don't want the truth.  We want to see how close they can come to what we want to hear without being caught in a lie.  Case in point, when Biden was asked something about whether he would let his family ride a train with some threat of the time looming and he responded honestly that he would not.  There was such a blow up that soon after (the very next day, maybe?) Biden, our Vice President, was riding the train, public transportation.  That's something the Vice President would normally NEVER do.  But because he didn't lie to us like he was expected to and assure us that everything was okay so that the train companies wouldn't lose any money over his words he HAD to ride the train himself to show that it was safe.  We not only expect, but DEMAND that our politicians lie to us.  It's a sad fact of the sorry state of our political system, and probably the reason it's mostly lawyers who apply for the jobs.

[PickelledEggs]

I dont think either of them will be bad. I don't think they'll be good either. I think our political apparatus is designed to reject any real change the president tries to make, forcing whoever it is to the middle of the road and keeping them there. Thats why comparing our leaders to dictators like Stalin or Hussein sounds so silly. They were notable because of their virtually unlimited power. We refer to the POTUS as the leader of the free world, but for such a lofty title they have relatively little power especially if theres an opposition majority in congress. Donald Trump will not build a wall between the US and Mexico or deport all Muslims because he will be slapped down for trying. Whatever Hillary tries to do will be similarly mangled beyond recognition.

I am a firm believer in the sluggish ineptitude of our government. Presidential power is restricted by sheer entropy.

Its all crap. In order for Donald Trump to challenge the RNC, he needed to activate a voter block that has lain dormant for half a century. That of disgruntled racist blue collar dipshits tired of not being able to yell at someone for being a "fag" in public without being looked at like they were Satan incarnate by literally everyone around them.

And boy did he ever succeed. He zoned right in on racist, religious bigots and their persecution complex with stunning success. So he keeps up the rhetoric, maintains his voter base and rides them into the general election. The drawback is he cant ever let up. He can't ever be less rabid than he is right now or he will lose people shockingly fast. He needs people to believe he will return America to the good old days where transvestites were consigned to a mental institution, gays were beaten to death by everyone in town, and niggers werent allowed to drink from the whites only fountain or sit in the front of the bus.

Its a clear cut strategy, but if he ever makes it into office he wont need those idiots anymore. Thats why I keep saying we dont know anything about President Trump, the statements of candidate Trump notwithstanding. Remember, this man was a Democrat a little over a decade ago. Hes every bit the chameleon that Clinton is.

What I find interesting about the people that are all of a sudden doing the "I'm not voting for the lesser of two evils" "The president isn't even the one that makes the changes" is that most of these people are the same people that would enthusiastically vote for Sanders.

So which is it? does the president not matter and no matter what big change it is, it won't happen, like it seems you're saying in this? In that case, why even vote for Sanders if he gets in?
or
Does the president have some say after all and you just don't feel like making the choice, if it's not the clear-cut one.

I'm getting a conflicting set of opinions from you. Just want to know which it is.

[Sargon The Grape]

So which is it? does the president not matter and no matter what big change it is, it won't happen, like it seems you're saying in this? In that case, why even vote for Sanders if he gets in?

I have no illusions about how Congress would react to a Sanders presidency. They would obstruct him as much as they'd obstruct Trump. I just like Bernie better; but I would settle for Trump. I'm more interested in showing how broken the US government is than in the policies of one man, at this point.

[PickelledEggs]

I have no illusions about how Congress would react to a Sanders presidency. They would obstruct him as much as they'd obstruct Trump. I just like Bernie better; but I would settle for Trump. I'm more interested in showing how broken the US government is than in the policies of one man, at this point.

Even though that I agree that they would obstruct both of them 90% of the time, there is that 10% that I don't like that will go through if Trump is elected. At least if Sanders is elected, if it's only a few policies out of many that are allowed to go through, it's still better than none. And even none is better than the chance that some would go through if Trump was elected. I really hope that Sanders can win these last primaries, but it is really looking grim.

[widdershins]

Even though that I agree that they would obstruct both of them 90% of the time, there is that 10% that I don't like that will go through if Trump is elected. At least if Sanders is elected, if it's only a few policies out of many that are allowed to go through, it's still better than none. And even none is better than the chance that some would go through if Trump was elected. I really hope that Sanders can win these last primaries, but it is really looking grim.

Putting aside that I'm pretty sure Trump is not nearly as right-wing, racist, crazy or stupid as he's pretending to be and taking him at face value, Congress not obstructing him would be the least of our worries.  Everything from Congress has been hyper-partisan since we elected a black guy Democrat as President.  I wouldn't worry so much about what they would let Trump do as I would worry about what Trump would sign should it cross his desk.  If he's really the right-wing nut he seems to be today Congress would quickly jump on it and start sending shit to his desk left and right, needing only enough votes to get it to his desk, no longer enough to override a veto.  And that's what makes that ACTUALLY crazy, arrogant, self-important, uncompassionate, uncaring, self-absorbed, power-hungry piece of shit Cruz even scarier.

[Mermaid]

The idea that Hillary Clinton is preferable to Donald Trump as president demonstrates a precious, terrifying sort of naivete on your part. 

I don't think this is fair to say.

[Draconic Aiur]

Plan B: Vote for trump, just to see Americas Destruction

[PickelledEggs]

Plan B: Vote for trump, just to see Americas Destruction

rm -rf /
Factory reset.

[PickelledEggs]

Putting aside that I'm pretty sure Trump is not nearly as right-wing, racist, crazy or stupid as he's pretending to be and taking him at face value, Congress not obstructing him would be the least of our worries.  Everything from Congress has been hyper-partisan since we elected a black guy Democrat as President.  I wouldn't worry so much about what they would let Trump do as I would worry about what Trump would sign should it cross his desk.  If he's really the right-wing nut he seems to be today Congress would quickly jump on it and start sending shit to his desk left and right, needing only enough votes to get it to his desk, no longer enough to override a veto.  And that's what makes that ACTUALLY crazy, arrogant, self-important, uncompassionate, uncaring, self-absorbed, power-hungry piece of shit Cruz even scarier.

Cruz does scare me more than Trump, but I am still very afraid of the very big possibility of Trump.

I do agree, and I don't feel that Trump is nearly as conservative as he seems right now, but other than a wishful hunch, I don't really know what else to base that off of. He didn't seem this bad in the past, but who knows if he actually felt this way back then as well. Or if he changed in to this person. I hope he isn't as radically conservative as he seems, but I don't think any of us can know that until it happens... if it happens that he is president.

You bring up another huge issue. What is Trump going to be approving as it comes to him during his possible presidency? Congress is a bunch of asswipes and we need someone to enforce the checks and balances in this country. I feel like Trump would barter policy for policy. He'd approve one of their shit policies if they approve one of his. Not a fun thought.

[Baruch]

Reducing US government to one man.  That isn't American.  Perhaps some of us would support General Franco?  If you don't like Congress, get rid of your Representative/Senator.  Politics requires a bear hug of all three branches.  Sick and tired of people re-electing their Representative/Senator and then bitching about it.

[PickelledEggs]

Reducing US government to one man.  That isn't American.  Perhaps some of us would support General Franco?  If you don't like Congress, get rid of your Representative/Senator.  Politics requires a bear hug of all three branches.  Sick and tired of people re-electing their Representative/Senator and then bitching about it.

Who is reducing the US government to one man? we're talking 1 of the 3 parts of the rock/paper/scissors that is our government's checks and balances system.

With the wrong people in those spots, shit goes down. We still have to make sure the courts and Congress have the right people, but if we elect the wrong president it's a full third of the system that we're stuck with for 4 years.

The other branches are an issue as well, but that isn't the topic at hand.

[Baruch]

Inseparable parts ... some people have to have their Great White Hope (or insert other skin color or gender).  Just changing one person, won't make much difference, even if it is the White House.  The current corruption is the result of 50 years of shit.  Magic Obama didn't make a bit of difference for me, a total Uncle Tom.

[gentle_dissident]

Everything from Congress has been hyper-partisan since we elected a black guy

Obama was recently interviewed on NPR. Steve Inskeep asked why he thought some people had problems with his policies. The President of the United States actually said, and I kid you not, it's because he is black. Steve was on the verge of laughter when he asked the man holding the highest office in the land if he was actually going to play the race card.Obama said he sticks by it.

And that's what makes that ACTUALLY crazy, arrogant, self-important, uncompassionate, uncaring, self-absorbed, power-hungry piece of shit Cruz even scarier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsUCRcK7QYc

[Nonsensei]

What I find interesting about the people that are all of a sudden doing the "I'm not voting for the lesser of two evils" "The president isn't even the one that makes the changes" is that most of these people are the same people that would enthusiastically vote for Sanders.

So which is it? does the president not matter and no matter what big change it is, it won't happen, like it seems you're saying in this? In that case, why even vote for Sanders if he gets in?
or
Does the president have some say after all and you just don't feel like making the choice, if it's not the clear-cut one.

I'm getting a conflicting set of opinions from you. Just want to know which it is.

Its not a conflicting opinion, just an incomplete one. Heres the other piece: the president is pretty useless, but the one area in which he seems to have virtually unlimited power is in situations where the American people get actively screwed. Gonna restrict peoples rights? Gonna fuck someone to the benefit of the elite? That shit is going through no problem. The president has carte blanche to fuck us.

Thats another big reason why I will vote for Berne and nobody else. Berne: less likely to fuck us.

[Draconic Aiur]

rm -rf /
Factory reset.

People really need to wake up, what more by giving them what they truly deserve and find the stupidest son of a bitch we can find that will start a war which will delete a portion of our planet's habitat and people.