About the idea that conspiracies are all nonsense?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Nobody wants to do Pearl Harbor with me? :(

[josephpalazzo]

Nobody wants to do Pearl Harbor with me? :(

YOU'RE NOT SCREAMING LOUD ENOUGH.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

YOU'RE NOT SCREAMING LOUD ENOUGH.

I usually don't have to.

[Baruch]

Nobody wants to do Pearl Harbor with me? :(

Turns out nobody believed that the Americans fired the first shot at Pearl Harbor.  The report of the captain and crew at the entrance to Pearl Harbor was thrown out ... both that morning, and in the subsequent inquiry.  There wasn't a vast conspiracy to cover it up, they simply chose to ignore evidence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyaWfo1pg-Q

It took until the 21st century before they found this minisub.  Some are still missing.

A British double agent, informed J Edgar Hoover, that Pearl Harbor was coming ... and Hoover ignored him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skF58MoavTs

British aviators working for Japan were essential in the successful attack on Pearl Harbor, and the capture of Singapore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=258i8xhNdqc

So ... do you have the complete secret files of the FBI and MI6?

General Billy Mitchell outlined a hypothetical attack on Pearl Harbor, decades before it happened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmcx-iCPE_s

In these films, it would appear that spying by the Japanese, and shear government incompetence was involved ... both in the loss of Singapore, the attack on Pearl Harbor, and the loss of the Philippines.  That and the highly competent Japanese Navy and Marines.

And of course it is most likely, that shear incompetence was involved in 9/11.  Any coverup probably involves simply protecting the political reputations of certain failed government officials.

[Hakurei Reimu]

Back in my younger days I actually I helped work 3 days on one of the spectrometers for the Hubble telescope (I was personally invited to do so by the principle engineer for one part of it).

Funny you should say that. My father also worked on the Hubble. That means your claim is somewhat checkable. Not that I believe you in the first place.

But if you prefer your fantasy, you are entitled to it ;-)

You're the one who believes insurance fraud over throwing good money after bad in the case of Challenger. I would really like to see you do better than NASA did, with congress breathing down your neck when the shuttle project, which was billed as being safe, reliable, cheap and regular access to space, was turning out to be anything but. Or how to hide insurance fraud regarding what would obviously be one of the highest profile accidents in space history (first teacher in space, remember?) and with the insurance companies paying very close attention to the investigation with all that money at stake â€"a caper that could only be pulled off if you were investigating to a foregone conclusionâ€" when you don't even know what evidence would turn up. Or in the case of Titanic, how one could fault Cunard Lines for not having enough lifeboats when Titanic itself was meant to be its own lifeboat, and I'd like to see you do better than most Edwardians in curbing the absolute arrogance for everything western that was pervasive at the time.

In short, you attribute to malice what is adequately explained by stupidity: stupidly throwing good money after bad in the case of NASA and Challenger, or the stupidity of Edwardian arrogance in the case of Cunard Lines and Titanic.

Turns out nobody believed that the Americans fired the first shot at Pearl Harbor.

I don't think it matters. They were still military aircraft from a nation not on good terms with the US, violating the airspace of a military installation of the US, and dropping bombs en mass on US soil, against clearly military targets. That is an act of war, and it doesn't matter a whit if some US soldiers fired upon them first or if the Japanese started dropping bombs first. Taking that into account would not have changed the outcome; the two of us were still at war, with the aggressors primarily the Japanese. You don't do what the Japanese did unless you were spoiling for a fight.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Baruch, you're twit. Captain Outerbridge reported he had fired on and dropped depth charges on a submarine operating in the restricted zone, and Com14th received that message and ordered the ready destroyer to sortie and the "four hour" destroyer to get steam up. Admiral Kimmel, CINCUS, left his regular Sunday morning golf buddy, General Short, standing and dashed down to his shore HQ. (His flagship, Pennsylvania was in dry dock at the time, so he was working out offices on the beach.)

EVERY investigation by the Navy, the investigation by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, and the Congressional investigation had copies of Ward's radio messages to Com14TH.

[Baruch]

Funny you should say that. My father also worked on the Hubble. That means your claim is somewhat checkable. Not that I believe you in the first place.
You're the one who believes insurance fraud over throwing good money after bad in the case of Challenger. I would really like to see you do better than NASA did, with congress breathing down your neck when the shuttle project, which was billed as being safe, reliable, cheap and regular access to space, was turning out to be anything but. Or how to hide insurance fraud regarding what would obviously be one of the highest profile accidents in space history (first teacher in space, remember?) and with the insurance companies paying very close attention to the investigation with all that money at stake â€"a caper that could only be pulled off if you were investigating to a foregone conclusionâ€" when you don't even know what evidence would turn up. Or in the case of Titanic, how one could fault Cunard Lines for not having enough lifeboats when Titanic itself was meant to be its own lifeboat, and I'd like to see you do better than most Edwardians in curbing the absolute arrogance for everything western that was pervasive at the time.

In short, you attribute to malice what is adequately explained by stupidity: stupidly throwing good money after bad in the case of NASA and Challenger, or the stupidity of Edwardian arrogance in the case of Cunard Lines and Titanic.
I don't think it matters. They were still military aircraft from a nation not on good terms with the US, violating the airspace of a military installation of the US, and dropping bombs en mass on US soil, against clearly military targets. That is an act of war, and it doesn't matter a whit if some US soldiers fired upon them first or if the Japanese started dropping bombs first. Taking that into account would not have changed the outcome; the two of us were still at war, with the aggressors primarily the Japanese. You don't do what the Japanese did unless you were spoiling for a fight.

I wish I could say I respected your opinion ... but your bullying is a ... negative.

You were projecting ... that I attribute anything to malice (though this is easy to do politically) ... or that I think little green men from Roswell are behind anything.  Is that your constant use of ad hominem?  It is easy to think that Nixon had malice ... but not to worry, he was simply incompetent ;-)

[Baruch]

Baruch, you're twit. Captain Outerbridge reported he had fired on and dropped depth charges on a submarine operating in the restricted zone, and Com14th received that message and ordered the ready destroyer to sortie and the "four hour" destroyer to get steam up. Admiral Kimmel, CINCUS, left his regular Sunday morning golf buddy, General Short, standing and dashed down to his shore HQ. (His flagship, Pennsylvania was in dry dock at the time, so he was working out offices on the beach.)

EVERY investigation by the Navy, the investigation by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, and the Congressional investigation had copies of Ward's radio messages to Com14TH.

These people are dead ... for how long now?  Why are you still defending their incompetence?  Was one of the unlucky Pearl Harbor folks a relative of yours?  I can understand the relatives trying to defend the reputation of the captain of the USS Indianapolis.  Nobody here is saying that the service chiefs in Hawaii were working for the Japanese.  The incompetence of MacArthur's defense of the Philippines is much greater, and he was "protected" in high places.  The British general who incompetently defended Singapore ... didn't get any medals from his country.  Though historical revisionists have tried to rehabilitate him.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Is babble your only offensive strategy?

[Baruch]

Well ... I didn't spend the last 60 years memorizing every dispatch from Peal Harbor for the month of Dec 1941 ... I had better things to do ;-)

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Well ... I didn't spend the last 60 years memorizing every dispatch from Peal Harbor for the month of Dec 1941 ... I had better things to do ;-)

And so you just buy into a bunch of internet fairy tales. Lovely plan.

[stromboli]

Lol. Big Navy attacks sleeping Navy, sleeping Navy bad for firing first? Bad Navy.

G. Washington leaves Valley Forge attacks sleeping Hessians at Trenton and pretty sure Washington fired first on sleeping Hessians. Bad Hessians. God I love history. 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Lol. Big Navy attacks sleeping Navy, sleeping Navy bad for firing first? Bad Navy. 

The Japanese attack Khota Baru before Pearl, almost four hours earlier.

[Baruch]

And so you just buy into a bunch of internet fairy tales. Lovely plan.

So all things on YouTube are false?  I suppose this applies to the characters one meets on Atheistforum.com?

[Baruch]

Lol. Big Navy attacks sleeping Navy, sleeping Navy bad for firing first? Bad Navy.

G. Washington leaves Valley Forge attacks sleeping Hessians at Trenton and pretty sure Washington fired first on sleeping Hessians. Bad Hessians. God I love history. 

I do too ... the Hessians had it coming.  And getting drunk of Xmas Eve is bad military discipline ... thank you Hessians.

I in no way think it was bad for the US destroyer to fire at an unknown periscope.  Pretty good shooting that they were able to hole it while it was underwater still.  The two Japanese sailors in the midget sub were brave men, a terrible shame to kill such men.  But they had it coming.  Our US sailors didn't have it coming.  I might not have memorized every Pearl Harbor dispatch, but once upon a time, I went to church with a man who survived the USS Arizona ... I didn't need to know more than that.