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Don't Crucify the Messenger

Started by WanderingWonderer, October 10, 2015, 12:40:31 PM

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aitm

Quote from: popsthebuilder on October 13, 2015, 12:19:32 PM
It was misconstrued. Sacrifice is to be of want for self(sin/greed). Killing innocent things for the actions of the guilty was never the right way.


Yeah, right, that's why there was such detailed instruction in the babble......
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

popsthebuilder

Quote from: Mike Cl on October 10, 2015, 06:41:03 PM
Of course, I'm bias.  But that bias came from study.  I am specifically speaking of Jesus.  I don't see how anybody who reads the evidence about Jesus' 'life' can really think he was an actual person.  So, to say that he 'taught' peace is simply putting your own wishes or spin on it.  Jesus can be made to say many things, some of which is not peaceful.  So, those who crafted the life of Jesus were skillful, I will admit.  But not as skillful as some may think.  The only 'witness' for Jesus and his teachings is the bible.  And the bible is not one book, but a collection of writings.  Who chose what writings to make up the bible is a convoluted history (which is what makes it interesting).  And there is a huge body of writings that was left over, some of which is still in existence and some we know of by name only.  And the 'bible' even now is not one set collection of writings.  There are many different versions, all of which are different, for different denominations.  This all really suggests politics and control--which leads to riches for the few.  For me, I think our history would have been gentler and kinder without  Christianity being in existence at all.
Most records were burned long ago. Any other records could be hidden intentionally by the same principalaties that swayed most from the right teachings.

All teachings of Christ are of peace. All fighting is of a spiritual nature and not physically violent in anyway.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.


popsthebuilder

Quote from: aitm on October 13, 2015, 12:24:26 PM
Yeah, right, that's why there was such detailed instruction in the babble......
If you read the new testament more closely you will see that it states that the teachings of Moses where misconstrued. There is a unified theme of all peaceful Faith. It is of sacrifice. Sacrifice can only be done by self as klingon other life isn't sacrifice it is murder.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.


popsthebuilder

Woe... Killing, not klingon😊

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.


aitm

Quote from: popsthebuilder on October 13, 2015, 12:30:47 PM
If you read the new testament more closely

Oh yeah, you're one of those guys that takes a yellow highlighter and highlights every fourth, twelveth, sixteenth word or so to make a "surprise" message from god. Yeah, we already know you pick and choose and make up shit.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Mike Cl

Quote from: popsthebuilder on October 13, 2015, 12:25:13 PM
All teachings of Christ are of peace. All fighting is of a spiritual nature and not physically violent in anyway.

These are the teachings of a man of peace?
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. Matthew 10:34
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. Luke 12:51

He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. Revelation 19:11

Couple those with the fact that Jesus did not disagree with any of the OT, and you have a man who maybe mouthed peace in certain times, but not all times.  And the fact that Jesus is a fiction, the authors and editors of that fictional character can, and did, put words into the cartoon's mouth that fit their agenda.  That the fiction making and the editing happened over a large time period made the cartoon support just about whatever stance you want to take.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

popsthebuilder

Quote from: Mike Cl on October 13, 2015, 01:22:37 PM
These are the teachings of a man of peace?
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. Matthew 10:34
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. Luke 12:51

He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. Revelation 19:11

Couple those with the fact that Jesus did not disagree with any of the OT, and you have a man who maybe mouthed peace in certain times, but not all times.  And the fact that Jesus is a fiction, the authors and editors of that fictional character can, and did, put words into the cartoon's mouth that fit their agenda.  That the fiction making and the editing happened over a large time period made the cartoon support just about whatever stance you want to take.
The sword is the word of God. It is part of the full armor of God. All ancient scripture goes back to a way of being. That tranquility is through peace. There is a consciousness that one can attain through absolute truth with one's self. We are to be giving without selfish want. We are to do for others without expecting them to do the same. There is much fighting, of a spiritual sense. When the time comes we may be called to fight in a physical sense. This is a whole different scenario from the end though. We are to unify under true Faith and sacrifice of sin under God. We are to be and preach peace and and help to all at this time by way of salvation through Christ. There will be division, but it will be 3 that make 1, against the 2 headed. It will be division within family and friends unfortunately. But now is the time to bring as many in to the folds of peace and unity and salvation under the one God. The division isn't here just yet, not in a violent sense anyway.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.


Unbeliever

Quote from: CrucifyCindy on October 10, 2015, 02:18:49 PM
Well before Moses they were doing it wrong.

Well, after Moses they still did it wrong.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

aitm

Quote from: popsthebuilder on October 13, 2015, 05:23:20 PM
The division isn't here just yet,


of course not cause in your addled brain "this generation" is as of right now about 1980 years overdue. But rest assured he will come " like a thief in the night"  LOLOLOLOL…what bullshit must be packed in that can atop yer shoulders.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

josephpalazzo

We've seen all kinds on this forum, but pops has to be one of the biggest screw-ups in a long time.

popsthebuilder

Would either of you care to explain what your problems are with me? How did I offend you? Did I do something to either of you or are you just haters just for the sake of negativity?

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.


aitm

I don't hate you, please, get a grip. You are a typical whack-job christian. You ignore the parts of the babble you don't like, espouse the parts you do like, and make up shit about other parts that you want to use if they sounded like what you want them to say. So,,,typical cherry picker who willingly ignores what the babble really says in favor of what you want it to say.

And of course, to top it off, you attempt to present yourself as an honest intellectual. Ha, dat some funny shit there.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Mike Cl

Quote from: popsthebuilder on October 13, 2015, 05:23:20 PM
The sword is the word of God. It is part of the full armor of God. All ancient scripture goes back to a way of being. That tranquility is through peace. There is a consciousness that one can attain through absolute truth with one's self. We are to be giving without selfish want. We are to do for others without expecting them to do the same. There is much fighting, of a spiritual sense. When the time comes we may be called to fight in a physical sense. This is a whole different scenario from the end though. We are to unify under true Faith and sacrifice of sin under God. We are to be and preach peace and and help to all at this time by way of salvation through Christ. There will be division, but it will be 3 that make 1, against the 2 headed. It will be division within family and friends unfortunately. But now is the time to bring as many in to the folds of peace and unity and salvation under the one God. The division isn't here just yet, not in a violent sense anyway.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
You do like to create stuff out of whole cloth, don't you.  As a typical christian, lying is not below you.  Fiction is your stock and trade.  That's cool.  Whatever gets you thru the long cold night.  Reason and you are not friends. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

popsthebuilder

On the contrary; we are well known to one another. Others reasoning doesn't generally allign with mine though.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.


Mike Cl

Quote from: popsthebuilder on October 13, 2015, 10:05:48 PM
On the contrary; we are well known to one another. Others reasoning doesn't generally allign with mine though.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
No kidding.  What you call reasoning is simply belief.  So, you can't align with something you don't do. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?