Dr. Ruth: being naked with a man is like playing in traffic.

Started by Valigarmander, June 10, 2015, 05:16:06 PM

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aitm

Quote from: Solitary on June 12, 2015, 10:04:52 PM
A chick? Really? Just because a person agrees with Dr. Ruth doesn't mean they think it is OK to rape a woman that says no, only that a lot of men do just that, and it is a bad practice for a women enticing a man to the point of nudity and putting themselves in that position. I don't think anyone here thinks it is OK to rape a woman who says no. I sure hope not.
Oh stop it Solitary, why, you are ruining the self-aggrandizing that some love to posture about.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

aitm

Quote from: wbuentello on June 12, 2015, 09:37:57 PM
Holy $h!t! Is this person serious or is this the village troll...
quick question oh bastion of…er…whatever you are…exactly how often  do you crawl into bed and get naked with women that you do not want to have sex with? Are they little girls? Are they big ole fatties? What it is about you that would make you want to get naked and crawl into bed with women you don't want to have sex with? Really! I find this absolutely freaking fascinating.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Solitary

Quote from: aitm on June 12, 2015, 10:08:42 PM
Oh stop it Solitary, why, you are ruining the self-aggrandizing that some love to posture about.
I'm sorry, I was just out of control, and glad you said it and not me, if you know what I mean.
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.

wbuentello



Quote from: aitm on June 12, 2015, 10:14:26 PM
quick question oh bastion of…er…whatever you are…exactly how often  do you crawl into bed and get naked with women that you do not want to have sex with? Are they little girls? Are they big ole fatties? What it is about you that would make you want to get naked and crawl into bed with women you don't want to have sex with? Really! I find this absolutely freaking fascinating.

Oh I wanted to have sex, no doubt but you assume that once I've got into bed with her I can't stop and say, "wwhoa!!, this is a bad fucking idea, she smells like a fish market". Are you serious?! I know you are though... Oh well...

stromboli

Quote from: Mermaid on June 12, 2015, 05:46:32 PM
I think the term "cock tease" really, really sucks. It implies a sort of entitlement to a woman's body, for one thing. I had that term used on me when I was young and not ready to have sex. It made me feel like there was something wrong with me.

So I was bad if I was a cock tease. I was a slut if I had sex, too, though. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

We are one fucked up culture.

That being said, I have been in that situation where I was naked in bed with someone and I said no to sex. It was a long time ago so I do not remember all the fine details, but I am guessing the reason I said no is as such: I wanted to have sex with him, but I didn't want to be a slut.

It is NEVER OKAY to assume you can go there without consent.
Quote from: Mermaid on June 12, 2015, 05:46:32 PM
I think the term "cock tease" really, really sucks. It implies a sort of entitlement to a woman's body, for one thing. I had that term used on me when I was young and not ready to have sex. It made me feel like there was something wrong with me.

So I was bad if I was a cock tease. I was a slut if I had sex, too, though. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

We are one fucked up culture.

That being said, I have been in that situation where I was naked in bed with someone and I said no to sex. It was a long time ago so I do not remember all the fine details, but I am guessing the reason I said no is as such: I wanted to have sex with him, but I didn't want to be a slut.

It is NEVER OKAY to assume you can go there without consent.

Did not mean to insult with that term, but in fact if you spend time in clubs or bars, especially where dancing is involved, there are women that will deliberately goad men into sexual arousal and then either shut them down or make claims that they were trying to rape them. Regardless of how offensive you might find that, it is a reality. I have seen it and I have known men that have been victimized by it. Men in heat tend to think with their dicks, sad to say. There are women that do it. My personal belief is that these are women that have grudges against men, no different than guys that play women, who are smooth talkers and then will find ways to humiliate them or belittle them. Again I've seen it and know men that have done it.

And yes, there are definitely men that label women as cock teases and so forth, but that doesn't change the fact that there are women that do that. I don't agree with either side of it, but it happens. It is an ugly reality of human behavior.

aitm

Quote from: wbuentello on June 12, 2015, 10:25:50 PM

she smells like a fish market".

what the fuck?  What kind of whacko turd are you?  No where did I ever say that a guy can't stop. Can you read the english? Can you? Quote where I said it was okay to rape someone…come on fucktard, quote me.

My position has been the same for 40 years, Dr Ruth has nothing to do with it. I don't give a fuck what your secondary position is, if your primary goal was to get fucked, and then you changed your mind in mid stroke, DO NOT BE FUCKING SURPRISED IF THE PERSON GETTING FUCKED OR DOING THE FUCKING DOES NOT SHARE YOUR FUCKING FEELINGS! Its not that hard son. Simple idea here, I mean it is really a simple idea… the best way to avoid this type of behavior is to not get in bed and naked with people you really are not sure you want to have sex with…how hard is that? I have never crawled into bed with someone I didn 't want to have sex with..who many times have you?
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

TomFoolery

Quote from: stromboli on June 12, 2015, 10:32:23 PM
Did not mean to insult with that term, but in fact if you spend time in clubs or bars, especially where dancing is involved, there are women that will deliberately goad men into sexual arousal and then either shut them down or make claims that they were trying to rape them. Regardless of how offensive you might find that, it is a reality.

Even if "professional" cock teases are as commonplace as you seem to think it is, so what? It still sounds as though you believe they deserve whatever is coming to them for behavior you find frustrating. I'm sorry if some woman out there really raked you over the coals with skimpy clothes, doe-eyes, nudity and rape allegations, but don't hold the entire female gender responsible for the actions of an individual. Just like I would rather be optimistic and don't think all men would force themselves upon me if I laid naked in a bed with them.
How can you be sure my refusal to agree with your claim a symptom of my ignorance and not yours?

wbuentello



Quote from: aitm on June 12, 2015, 10:36:49 PMI have never crawled into bed with someone I didn 't want to have sex with..who many times have you?

If you aren't insinuating that you can't say no once you're in bed then what the fuck is your point of saying this multiple times? I never have either but wtf does that have to do with anything?! Okay so she gets pissed off, and she did, but still what does that have to do with anything? I never said no one should get upset but I may have implied that it's childish to be upset that she turned you down. Maybe you're assuming that these people are getting into bed with no intention of sleeping with the other person. Who cares! Get upset then put your big boy pants on and step!
I also see you like to live vicariously through your online persona, slinging personal insults from the safety of you're screen... Needless to say the effect was less then impressive.

aitm

Quote from: wbuentello on June 12, 2015, 10:54:25 PM

slinging personal insults from the safety of you're screen...
You started it fucktard. All I did was suggest that getting naked and crawling into bed with a person and initiating sex with them and then asking them to stop may not end up with the desired result. I suggested, as I always do, on the basis of personal responsibility is to decide you want t have sex BEFORE you get naked an crawl into bed with someone.

But I see you think differently..what do the goats say.. or do you bother to even ask them?
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

aitm

Quote from: wbuentello on June 12, 2015, 10:54:25 PM

Okay so she gets pissed off, and she did,

I missed that. I think we all understand now. You have my sympathies. Sorry for being mean.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

wbuentello



Quote from: aitm on June 12, 2015, 11:00:37 PM

But I see you think differently..what do the goats say.. or do you bother to even ask them?
Maybe once when I was young... I don't bother anymore.

stromboli

Quote from: TomFoolery on June 12, 2015, 10:45:10 PM
Even if "professional" cock teases are as commonplace as you seem to think it is, so what? It still sounds as though you believe they deserve whatever is coming to them for behavior you find frustrating. I'm sorry if some woman out there really raked you over the coals with skimpy clothes, doe-eyes, nudity and rape allegations, but don't hold the entire female gender responsible for the actions of an individual. Just like I would rather be optimistic and don't think all men would force themselves upon me if I laid naked in a bed with them.


And right now you jumped to the conclusion that I was calling every woman a cock tease, when I clearly didn't. And as I said, I have never been victimized in that way because I am a smart man that doesn't think with his dick. And I did not hold the entire female gender "responsible" and you are making statements that are vastly blown out of proportion. I was raised by a single mother and have great respect for women and I am deeply offended that you have labeled me as some kind of judgmental brain dead moron. The simple fact is that there are women that play men and there are men that play women, that is a reality. I never made a generalization at any point that women in general are anything.

If that is the kind of outlandish, overblown responses that I am going to get from you I am not answering any more posts. I am deeply offended and you have obviously labeled me without cause. So carry on with your tirade, I'm done.

AllPurposeAtheist

Aside from the obvious about hopping in the sack with someone right away there are plenty of reasons to be careful,  disease just one of them,  but there are plenty of men and women alike who seem to think it's their jobs to go forth and multiply and whoever the victim is is just tough shit. You get to be either the mommy or the daddy and the law seems to go right along with that preplanned game of parent making.  It's usually women who hung out to dry, but there are plenty of men who with one night of fun get the great honor of paying child support for a minimum of 18 years,  sometimes more.
This is why I'm happy to be of a certain age where most of the women I might go to bed with are past the age of being able to bear children.
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

drunkenshoe

Quote from: aitm on June 12, 2015, 10:03:50 PM
You are suggesting that the idea that someone should be cautious about their sexual adventures is an excuse for rape, I have not suggested that. I have at all times agreed that the good lady is mostly correct in her suggestions that people should not crawl into bed and invite sex and then demand it stop at anytime of her or his desire and expect positive outcomes. Her assertions are correct about human behaviors, our demands that we "should not" do that is irrelevant to the common behavior.

You are welcome to dance around shout all you want about what we should and could do, but that is completely irrelevant to what human behavior seems to show us and despite all our grandstanding it appears….by the court cases that our assertions that we are better than that, may not indeed be true.

I am not dancing around anything. I am going very straight. You are confusing human behaviour WHICH CAN BE MODIFIED, WHICH WE ALREADY HAVE MODIFIED countless times, with some sort of unstoppable, uncontrollable instinct or drive that cannot go back after a switch. This is bullshit. The common behaviour is the way you describe, because all the scoial norms and sexual culture are telling MEN that it is OK that if they don't stop at some point, because it's the way they are 'wired'. They are not 'wired', they are CONDITIONED to feel ENTITLED. Nobody is 'wired'. It's an obsolete idea. Every day science is telling us how much impressionable puppets we are and how getting aware of something; gaining consciousness about something CHANGES things.

We humans are not some 'animals' that needs a season or specific biological conditions to breed. We have sex, when we feel like to have it. We choose. A man doesn't just get turned on by me because I am ready to be impregnated at that moment. Our sexual affairs are very different than other animals.

Look around. Remember how it was when you were a young man, aitm? Why it is not like that anymore? Why there is a great difference between the understanding of rape of 20 years ago and now? People knew what was consent thousands of years ago. What changed? We keep modifiying human behvaiour constantly by raising awareness and telling No,no,no'. Can you imagine this issue being a common topic in 1970? Or even in 80s or 90s?

Now in the West, women who are sexually assaulted in some way come out more, -also it has started over here recently- because they are aware that the more people do that it changes things, more people uderstand that rape is NOT someting that needs special circumstances to occur but it is likely to happen at everywhere at all times in some way. Everyday more people get that almost all rapists are not some Holywood sexual sadist or a psychopath stereotype, but just ordinary men; they are husbands, boyfriends who acts along with the bullshit they grew up with.

The human behaviour is human behvaiour, because we are effecting it, shaping it, changing it constantly. We are rewarding or punishing it, so making the norms AND that's how human acts.

If you teach boys that they are in control of themselves and their own body, that they can always choose, that their partner can say NO at ANY time and that's just SOMETHING VERY SIMPLE LIKE SPILLING COFFE on THEIR SHIRT and NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR MANHOOD, THEIR WORTH, you'd be amazing how this bullshit would start to change in time. It would save both genders from a lot of bullshit that is likely to end in serious situations. 

But what we are doing all around the world? We are teaching boys that

-he who fucks the most pussy is the champion
-shit happened, someone got raped? Oh boys will be boys, she shouldn't have done 'insert bullshit here' (my favourite)
-they are entitled to come after they got an erection, because they have a cock and that's how cocks work
-it is something embarrassing and humiliating to be sexually rejected by a female and that means they are worthless, less of a male
-females have a sexual power over them and they should get it anywhere they can with anyone possible, because that's what men do
-males are fucking morons that would do anything to get into a pussy, so they cannot be held responsible of some consequences
-if a girl is enjoying sex openly, she is a 'slut' and should be targeted first and rejection by a 'slut' is the worst one
-ıf a girl is acting very comfortably, sexually agressive, she is a 'cock tease'
-there are girls to fuck and girls to get marry
-if  a girl is drunk or dressed in revealing clothes she is asking for rape,
-it is OK to rape when there is 'temptation' and 'provocation' because then it is not rape

We can go a miles with this. Would you like to hear about what we are teaching to girls? All that bullshit^AND THEN SOME.

--->Overall, we are teaching boys that there are circumstances they are not responsbile for their actions, because they are heterosexual males.

[Do you guys remember that a couple of years ago I posted something happened in the US with a few football players and a girl who was raped by them, but NOBODY came forward although they were witnesses, because EVERYONE AGREED that with one way or another she DESERVED what hapened to her, that boys in question were 'good athletes' loved in town, that she was drinking with them and probably she was asking for it.]

The root of the idea is the same. The heterosexual male should be excused under some circumstances, because he has a penis.

aitm, I think you know all this bullshit. It feels like you have this approach to gender issues and sexual norms that operates under the idea it's based on concrete norms -what you think is natural- of human reality that cannot be changed or that if it is, man won't be man and women won't be women. After I have read yor post -the one I have answered- I have remebered what you have written about a thread I posted about US army rape epidemic cuple of years ago. That was consistent with this one. You said something like "When they put women in with men in camps in combat area, people are bound to get 'stabbed'. Remember?

It's very important to being able to distinguish what can be changed in that human reality and social norms are the best we can because it depends on what you CHOOSE TO DO and teach your children. This is goes on ONE on ONE. It developes by the change in INDIVUAL BEHAVIOURS and REACTIONS. It's what you, me, she, he make of it. That's the basis of personal responsibility. Individual level. Personal responsibility doesn't disappear during sex when you got naked and jump in to bed. Neither consent.

We modify human behaviour  all the time. That's how we come this far.

But if you come to me with this:

QuoteYeah, sorry, I am one of those guys that if you say you got raped and you were naked in a bed shoving some guys dick into your snatch, I have a hard time standing on your side of the table.

You are defending rape culture from a heterosexual male standpoint. And you are the one dancing around it, refusing to call it rape, the spade a spade.




















"science is not about building a body of known 'facts'. ıt is a method for asking awkward questions and subjecting them to a reality-check, thus avoiding the human tendency to believe whatever makes us feel good." - tp

drunkenshoe

#59
Are any of the guys who are speaking of this 'cock tease' aware that they are speaking of some behaviour of women who are sexually agressive, comfortable AND just acts differnet than the general female norm in most men's heads and so get labeled just then and there as a 'cock tease' by the men those women REFUSE?

Do men call the women with same behavioural pattern a 'cock tease' when they end up with them in bed?

No, they don't. Because women become a 'cock tease' for men AFTER they refuse to 'give it to them'.

It's another way of denying a simple rejection most men cannot handle. 'There is nothing wrong with me or my manhood, she is just a fucking 'cock tease'. 'That's on her.'

Another mechanism created, so the heterosexul male ego wouldn't take any 'bruise' and be able to blame the female for any negative result in sexual affairs he is entitled to rule.

PS Look it some male posters here. They claim they didn't have anyyone who wanted to stop the during sex, save a one certain situtation may be, but they are all talking about some big 'cock tease' issue, as if they have lived through it right and left all their lives. Why, because all men are talking about it, they are told that's the thing with some women. They see some women 'acting' like that. Like what? What is a cock tease to one man and to the other? Noone knows. After all they are women, who knows those 'evil pussies' are capable of.

:rotflmao:
"science is not about building a body of known 'facts'. ıt is a method for asking awkward questions and subjecting them to a reality-check, thus avoiding the human tendency to believe whatever makes us feel good." - tp