Why did YOU start to lose faith?

[Passion of Christ]

Thank God!? Hahahahaha

You will have to look at the evidence, the arguments, soul search, do some prayer and contemplation and let the power of Holy Spirit guide you and all that good stuff. Don't just believe whatever Richard Dawkins tells you, he doesn't know Jack outside of evolution/biology.

[Moriarty]

But isn't it important to know your enemy well? :P

God isn't your enemy he's the reason why you exist.

God isn't the enemy to those who don't believe because he can't even be shown to exist.  

The enemy is any religion that wants to shove its imaginary god on everyone else.

Even the ones that don't want to shove it on others are. Anyone that teaches their children bullshit are basically abusing them and are bad people in my book.

[Passion of Christ]

Even the ones that don't want to shove it on others are. Anyone that teaches their children bullshit are basically abusing them and are bad people in my book.

Children should be taught about religion, different religions than their own and why it faith and moral values are important but ultimately be given the choice to believe or not. Rather than raised in a sterile religion free bubble or told it's some kind of myth from ancient times "but now we have science".

[Plu]

Even the ones that don't want to shove it on others are. Anyone that teaches their children bullshit are basically abusing them and are bad people in my book.

Children should be taught about religion, different religions than their own and why it faith and moral values are important but ultimately be given the choice to believe or not. Rather than raised in a sterile religion free bubble or told it's some kind of myth from ancient times "but now we have science".

That's actually how they did it in my school. Unsurprisingly, everyone turned out atheist.

[Passion of Christ]

That's actually how they did it in my school. Unsurprisingly, everyone turned out atheist.

There's no good reason why they should end up not believing in God if given the choice, particularly as God is more rational than the alternative if you really get into it.

[Moriarty]

That's actually how they did it in my school. Unsurprisingly, everyone turned out atheist.

There's no good reason why they should end up not believing in God if given the choice, particularly as God is more rational than the alternative if you really get into it.

Now you're just trolling.

[Plu]

You can say there's no good reason all you want, I'm merely stating what I observed actually happening. We learned a lot about various religions and we all came out atheists.

[Passion of Christ]

You can say there's no good reason all you want, I'm merely stating what I observed actually happening. We learned a lot about various religions and we all came out atheists.

So there was no reason for you to come out atheists beyond just what simply wanting to believe what you believe? There was thought real thought process involved?

[SGOS]

Children should be taught about religion, different religions than their own and why it faith and moral values are important but ultimately be given the choice to believe or not. Rather than raised in a sterile religion free bubble or told it's some kind of myth from ancient times "but now we have science".

No one is raised in a religion free bubble.  People learn about religions because they are surrounded by them.  They learn about other religions because information about other cultures exists and we don't live in a vacuum.  And everyone has a choice to believe, unless they have been brainwashed as a child.

All you are doing is pointing to a straw man.

[Plu]

The thought proces went along the lines of "Well people told me about the easter bunny, but it isn't real. And they taught me about santa clause, but he isn't real. And they taught me about god..."

That's about where I gave up on it. I was about 7 or so. I could really see no reason why god would be any more real than the easter bunny; the exact same reasoning we used to  convince ourselves the easter bunny existed when we were kids was used by adults to convince themselves god existed, and the exact same arguments against the easter bunny our parents gave us as proof he wasn't real, was used by those same adults to convince other people their god wasn't real, and I found no real reason to believe the god they themselves believed in was any different.

It sounds really silly when you put it like this, doesn't it? And yet I've tried looking for information on religion on and off for years and this is really all it boils down to. As children, we believe freely in santa clause, and most people only stop believing because their parents tell them he isn't real. Imagine how you would feel about santa clause today if people hadn't told you he was fake, but instead every street corner had a man shouting "santa will give you coal if you don't repent", every third building was dedicated to writing gift-lists for him, and every time you said "you know, I don't think this santa guy is real", you'd receive the gaze of death.

If people openly say the believe in santa clause, they're declared fools. The only reason people can openly say they believe in god is because they're not alone. This is also exactly why in highly secular countries people look at you funny when you say you believe in god. They really don't see the distinction between believing in god and believing in santa clause.

[SGOS]

Anyone that teaches their children bullshit are basically abusing them

Agreed.  I experienced it myself as a child.  I have no doubt my parents loved me, but they fed me enough bullshit that it took many years to leave it behind.  This is what I mean by brainwashing.  It's exactly what happened to me.  And it was most definitely abuse.  It's teaching lies, instilling fear, and teaching kids that ghosts and spirits are real.

[Moriarty]

Anyone that teaches their children bullshit are basically abusing them

Agreed.  I experienced it myself as a child.  I have no doubt my parents loved me, but they fed me enough bullshit that it took many years to leave it behind.  This is what I mean by brainwashing.  It's exactly what happened to me.  And it was most definitely abuse.  It's teaching lies, instilling fear, and teaching kids that ghosts and spirits are real.

I was always determined to keep my kids away from that bullshit until they could decide on their own. Then the relationship fell apart when the boys were 6 and 8 and the new guy decided to tell them about "god" and "god's love". It's the closest I have ever come to killing anybody. By the time I was done with him he understood that the kids had one father and he had no right to do what he did. I had to go into damage control and tell them my Atheistic views well before I had planned on it but made certain to tell them that in the end the decision was their own.

[Passion of Christ]

No one is raised in a religion free bubble.

That's what atheists seem to want or if they are taught about it they should be taught it as a historical fictional literature like the Iliad or a Shakespeare play. To suggest that there actually is a God would be child abuse seeing as God doesn't exist and you don't teach children to believe in things that aren't real, or at least you would tell them at some point. Atheists may have a traumatic experience when they were told Santa doesn't exist perhaps and this lead to their atheism in later life or something.

[youtube:1ajfet6l]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyWUn_bj5rM[/youtube:1ajfet6l]

People learn about religions because they are surrounded by them.  They learn about other religions because information about other cultures exists and we don't live in a vacuum.

You can learn about your own religion as well no harm in that. Yes it's culturally transmitted but that doesn't stop it from being true/better than the alternatives. Muslims believe Islam is the best and most pure religion and they teach that to their children and they're perfectly right to do that, as long as they teach them about the alternatives and give them a free choice which I don't think they do. There's no death for apostasy in Christianity you know, they did burn heretics at the stake in the middle ages but Jesus never instructed anyone to do this so we can let that slide.

And everyone has a choice to believe, unless they have been brainwashed as a child.

If you don't teach children a religion chances are they won't end up with one though this would be through ignorance and naivety rather than their free choice. Atheists know a bit more about religion and have made an informed choice though, many of them were raised in a religion and lost their faith for whatever reason. So it's better to bring children up with whatever belief it is their culture has though there's no need to drill it in relentlessly to some kind of fantastical extreme, you can just be normal.  

All you are doing is pointing to a straw man.

I don't even see the straw man I'm supposed to be pointing to.

[Plu]

If you don't teach children a religion chances are they won't end up with one though this would be through ignorance and naivety rather than their free choice. Atheists know a bit more about religion and have made an informed choice though, many of them were raised in a religion and lost their faith for whatever reason. So it's better to bring children up with whatever belief it is their culture has though there's no need to drill it in relentlessly to some kind of fantastical extreme, you can just be normal.

That's what they started doing in the Netherlands in the 50s. I think we're in the top 10 least religious countries in the world now. Funny that. When you take away the extremist indoctrination, kids just don't buy it anymore :)

[Moriarty]

It's really quite simple, I object to a god on so many levels. Scientifically, Philosophically and the mere fact that if by chance a god did exist I would want nothing to do with that prick bastard mass murdering son of a bitch.