Liberals loooooovvvee Islam

[Jorjor]

Yes I know, the majority of Muslims are of the moderate/peaceful variety. But to label Islam itself as a "religion of peace" is also horribly innaccurate. The people we consider "extremists" are simply following what the their book says.

Since GWB, pretty much the only people I hear referring to Islam as a religion of peace are the people saying it isn't one. As in, I never hear anyone else calling it a religion of peace. I'm sure some people do, but the idea that everyone is calling it a religion of peace so the brave few have to fight the rising tide to make sure we don't forget that not all Muslims are peaceful seems a bit silly to me.

I've heard quite a few people say it(moderate muslims mainly).

[Jorjor]

Christianity simply has had more time to be cherry picked and watered down.

I do agree with you here.

[Jorjor]

No, I'm saying that pointing at Salafist Sunnis and saying 'that's Islam' is like pointing at the Westboro Baptist church and saying 'that's Christianity'. And pointing at Al Qaeda and saying 'that's Islam' is like pointing at the Lord's Resistance Army and saying 'that's Christianity'.

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief] is worse than killing...

 
Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home).

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Yup, definitely not Islam.... :-?

[Jmpty]

Luke 19.27:"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me."
Jesus.
So what? All of the " holy books" are full of this shit.

[Jorjor]

All of the " holy books" are full of this shit.

Yes they are

[baronvonrort]

The UK has 'ghettoized' Muslim immigrants, concentrating poor populations in small areas where they form a local majority. In the USA, Muslims tend to be prosperous and successful middle class citizens. Muslim birth rates go down just like any other immigrants from the developing world in the second and third generations.

This is a case where the term 'American exceptionalism' is justified. The children of Muslim immigrants in the USA are watching the Disney channel, aspiring to play professional basketball, and can't seem to stop texting. They're just as susceptible to Americanization as anyone else.

The UK and Australia have cradle to the grave welfare with cheap government housing and the ghettos are formed in these areas, the USA does not have generous welfare which is why they dont have the same problems with integration.

Of course the leftist apologists take the Islamic line that muslims are never at fault it is always the fault of non muslims on why they form ghettos,Islam has an ingrained victim mentality which helps with propaganda.

The kids of those chechen immigrants appeared to fit in real well, untill they let off a few bombs in Boston.

[baronvonrort]

Christianity simply has had more time to be cherry picked and watered down.

I do agree with you here.

Islam forbids cherry picking, once upon a time before political correctness we called the Islamic terrorists fundamentalists, the leftist idiots changed this to extemists when fundamentalist spelled it out clearly.

If you speak to a muslim they will tell you the Quran forbids cherry picking in this verse and that makes it different from all the other delusions-
//http://www.quran.com/2/85

[baronvonrort]

I resent when people are singled out as a racist by ignoramuses who apparently don't even understand what that word really means.

If you think Muslims are a race then you are not very smart.

You're absolutely right. People who think a religious minority that comprises less than 2% of their nation's population is about to kill everyone and overthrow the country are paranoid bigots, not racists.

I agree that's a silly idea.

America is the last place in the world that needs to worry about succumbing to Muslim influence.

The purpose of jihad in Islam is not to kill non muslims,rather the purpose is to establish the religion of allah on earth,to establish the rule of his shariah
//http://www.islamqa.com/en/21961

The impotence of muslims should never be mistaken for lack of intent.

South Park showed us how far the USA has succumbed to Islam,Islam does mean submission and the Americans have that bit down and they are not even muslims. :rollin:

[baronvonrort]

No, I'm saying that pointing at Salafist Sunnis and saying 'that's Islam' is like pointing at the Westboro Baptist church and saying 'that's Christianity'

 When a Muslim does something bad, we automatically leap to blaming Islam itself.

So what do the Salafis do that is considered unislamic? Did Muhammad Wahhab introduce new innovations or did he purify Islam by removing innovations?

I have seen mild sunnis asking salafis for opinions on Islam, the salafis are fundamental with their Islam.

When a muslim does something bad the leftist apologists blame everything but Islamic ideology.

[youtube:2bspqqae]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNTRBTzJwCc[/youtube:2bspqqae]

[youtube:2bspqqae]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pDcTw1VgOs[/youtube:2bspqqae]

[youtube:2bspqqae]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIVOb1EbSUU[/youtube:2bspqqae]

I am off to another forum that has muslims posting in it, i prefer that to arguing with American Islamic apologists in a atheist forum.

[Shiranu]

So what do the Salafis do that is considered unislamic? Did Muhammad Wahhab introduce new innovations or did he purify Islam by removing innovations?

So what do Westboroughs do that is considered unchristian? Did Pastor Phelps introduce new innovations or did he purify Christianity by removing innovations?

When a muslim does something bad the leftist apologists blame everything but Islamic ideology.

Yeah, no shit, because that isn't the way humans work. I think most "leftist apologists" will agree that Islam does take some of the blame, but we also say, "Look, hold up... we cant blame the problem on one cause and just ignore all the other factors that go into.".

Just like I don't blame the Lord's Resistance Army solely on Christianity or the KKK solely on racism. People aren't just racist or a religious fanatic; it is something that is taught to them and more often than not taught to them by people who are economically and socially struggling or perceived to have been wronged by another power (LRA - the Ugandan Gov't, The Troubles in Ireland - Britain, Taliban - United States/Western Powers, some racists - immigrants stealing their jobs/money/committing crimes).

At this point it is a tangled mess, but if we were to completely abolish Islam right now, just poof it out of existence... the majority of the terrorists and fundamentalists would still continue to behave just the same way. Islam is their excuse, but without it they will just find another... see the African who "proved" homosexuality wrong with "science" or the American psychologists and scientist of old who deemed women incapable of being able to govern themselves or have rights because their "brains weren't developed as a man's were".

So this is why "leftist apologists", or at least I, do not run around proclaiming Islam to be the problem. To blame it on Islam is a knee-jerk reaction that only validates the oppressors; instead of focusing on the root causes, we attack their scapegoat and they can turn around and say, "You see, you see! They are the enemy! They attack our faith, our culture!".

It is very hard to say that the person who wants to increase your standard of living or offer you equal rights is the boogieman... possible, but hard. It is not so hard to say the person screaming, "Islam is evil! It is the root of all evil! Your culture is why you are evil!" is the badman.

[josephpalazzo]

Because you don't see that Islam is more crazier than other religions?
It's like saying Islam and other religions are the same when in reality, it's not. I can prove it by sending links if you like.

You seem to forget that US military is always pursuing the terrorists, no matter where there are, or how long they've committed their crimes. Just the recent capture of Anas al Libi in Libya is an obvious example. So we are not soft on terrorists. But like I said, muslims are free to live in this country, and just like any other citizen, must obey our laws. And in regard to their beliefs, then it is upon all of us to denounce those ideas that are unacceptable from our POV.

Well i am glad that they have captured a terrorist. But now my concern is if Obama will help the rebels when it comes to "Syria". In which i am against, because i believe Syria has potential to be secular, without US interfering there. But it seems most Americans also are against it aswell.
But like i said, Islam is just evil, you can think whatever you like about it, but if something doesn't gets done, then we in the future, may be under Sharia Law, because that is what Muslims wish for. If you disagree ok, you can have your opinion on that. But i will say, i disagree, and don't think it belongs in a democratic free society, that's just my opinion.

But it is also undemocratic to repress the right to self-expression. And muslims have this right in the US. But we, as atheists, have also the right to denounce their beliefs and practices. What's important in a democracy is that in principle, no one can operate above the law.

[Jorjor]

People aren't just racist or a religious fanatic; it is something that is taught to them.

Um, yeah, most likely by the Quran, There are numerous verses the specifically command muslims to fight and kill non-believers. The book DOES tell them to do that sort of stuff. They don't just pluck it out of the blue. Many liberals make it out like Islam is this peaceful innocent religion that was somehow hijacked by crazies. Sorry but most of the things these so called "extremists" do  come straight from the book itself.

[Plu]

Many liberals make it out like Islam is this peaceful innocent religion that was somehow hijacked by crazies.

I've never met one of those before. Where do you find these wacko liberals you speak of?

[YurmaGetto]

Mmm... i like nice people. They are cozy to hang out with ^^

[Shiranu]

People aren't just racist or a religious fanatic; it is something that is taught to them.

Um, yeah, most likely by the Quran, There are numerous verses the specifically command muslims to fight and kill non-believers. The book DOES tell them to do that sort of stuff. They don't just pluck it out of the blue. Many liberals make it out like Islam is this peaceful innocent religion that was somehow hijacked by crazies. Sorry but most of the things these so called "extremists" do  come straight from the book itself.

You're right, they don't pick it out of the blue... they cherry pick it from their cultures dominant holy book to justify their actions. Just like the Inquisition used the Bible to justify murdering and exile Jews (who were perceived as being economically better-off, mostly due to the fact that Europeans didn't let them do anything BUT economically good jobs), the Christian terrorists of Ireland and Uganda use religious doctrine to justify their terrorism or slave owners saying that the one dude's skin was turned black for being disobedient, therefor god WANTED blacks to be slaves.

I think you must have missed my entire post; humans are not as simple as you want to make them out to be. These conflicts are rooted in all sorts of cultural, political and socioeconomic issues and by blaming it all on Islam you only give ammo to the oppressors and ignore the root problems.

Now if you want to some how twist that into, "Liberals say Islam is a religion of peace."... good luck with that.