All lives matter?

[PickelledEggs]

And again, they do.

Link me, buddy.

And you are seriously doing the exact thing you have criticised people for doing towards police!

Correct. It's both shit. BLM people that start hate/violence towards police and white people AND Blue Lives matter people that start hate/violence towards black people.

Is that difficult for you to understand? I did say that those two are the two different sides of the same shit-coin... or do you not remember that?

[drunkenshoe]

[spoiler]
Third Section title: Unapolagetically Black
I don't really know what it means to be "black" in your positioning. That doesn't make sense to me at all, and a cynical part of me suspects that the person who wrote it doesn't have a coherent idea of what it means either. Sounds like something that was added to the site because it sounded good. The rest is fine. Of course such a simple statement of demand for equality does not need to be qualified, when considered on its own.

Fourth Section title: Globalism
Uh I guess my strongest reaction to this statement is "why?". What do African Americans have in common with black people in any other part of the world other than the tone of their skin and a common genetic ancestry (which by the way every human on Earth actually shares at some point in the tree).

Fifth Section title: Black Women
Well, it was smooth sailing until now. Although this section is titled "Black Women" it doesn't really have anything to do with being black. This is new age feminism infecting a movement that doesn't really have anything inherently to do with it.

Sixth Section title: Collective Value
Oh my goodness, and the kitchen sink too. Its nice that this movement is so inclusive. Unless, you know, you're a CIS white male. In that case you're on your own. Not invited to this wonderful new world of equality BLM is going to summon through sheer force of righteousness.

Seventh Section title: Transgender Affirming
Yee haw gentlemen start your engines. Sorry, sorry. I mean gentlepersons. The Black Women section was pretty bad about having nothing to do with racial injustice, but this one basically comes right out and declares that BLM is either being hijacked by SJW's or has been completely hijacked by SJW's. Anyone remember when this movement was about cops shooting black people unnecessarily? I guess those days are long gone. I wonder if black people who think of themselves as part of BLM are even aware of how many other non-black groups the movement is presently trying to cram into its agenda.

Eighth Section title: Black Villages
This section baffles me because I am unable to figure out who it is supposed to appeal to.

Ninth Section title: Empathy
Unless you're a CIS white male i guess.

Tenth Section title: Black Families
More SJW/modern feminism stuff. The boogeyman patriarchy lives here. Doesn't really have anything to do with racial issues. Also curious about what they mean by "justice work".

Eleventh Section title: Loving Engagement
Great. Hard to argue with that, though that's probably because the statement is so simplistic that there's literally nothing to discuss.

Twelfth Section title: Queer Affirming
I can almost smell the overwieght purple haired white girl that wrote all these SJW sections. Again I am forced to ask, what does this have to do with racial issues?

Thirteenth Section title: Intergenerational
LOL even ageism is included. I guess it is literally the case that everyone is invited to this movement except heterosexual white men under the age of 60.

It appears that the BLM movement has swallowed the poison pill that is the SJW community. What started as a movement born from an outcry against racial oppresseion has now become something that, according to these principles, has only a passing relationship to black people and racial issues. SJW's have burrowed beneath the skin of this movement and consumed it from within and now it is nothing more than a puppet, animated to promote an agenda not its own.

Scratch...delete.

First I started to write a long post to you and then realised that while you won't read any of it, you'll come back to me with a series of obnoxious insults and in the end it is just my time and energy is wasted.

All you are saying up there can be summarised thus:

"I don't see or believe these groups have the issues they claim they do. So they are harmful."

You are trying to put round holes in square pegs and keep complaining 'I don't get why don't these fit'.

I practically cried out at this point:

Fifth Section title: Black Women
Well, it was smooth sailing until now. Although this section is titled "Black Women" it doesn't really have anything to do with being black. This is new age feminism infecting a movement that doesn't really have anything inherently to do with it.

Sixth Section title: Collective Value
Oh my goodness, and the kitchen sink too. Its nice that this movement is so inclusive. Unless, you know, you're a CIS white male. In that case you're on your own. Not invited to this wonderful new world of equality BLM is going to summon through sheer force of righteousness.

Seventh Section title: Transgender Affirming
Yee haw gentlemen start your engines. Sorry, sorry. I mean gentlepersons. The Black Women section was pretty bad about having nothing to do with racial injustice, but this one basically comes right out and declares that BLM is either being hijacked by SJW's or has been completely hijacked by SJW's. Anyone remember when this movement was about cops shooting black people unnecessarily? I guess those days are long gone. I wonder if black people who think of themselves as part of BLM are even aware of how many other non-black groups the movement is presently trying to cram into its agenda.

Could you please draw me a map of showing this unbelivable agenda of SJWs and their motivations and how those^ fit in there? What's their strategy with BLM group for example? What will they gain to what the end? Your post reads like illuminati bullshit.

You have no perspective whatsoever of the hierarchy of cultural and racial diversity in your -or any other human- society, literally cannot get that people born into an identity they do not choose but has to live with. Do you know who is not forced to learn about that? The people included in the group at the top of that hierarchy.

Your basic idea about all protest groups are roughly 'I don't see anything wrong going on, I don't believe in these issues so it doesn't exist and rest is made up'. All you are jacked about is the 'You are cis white male' part.

How on earth anyone could think that being a black transgender wouldn't include any issues to do with race, but just some agenda of a certain gender group?! How fucking dumb is that? Which planet do you live in? That's basiclly saying 'there is no racism in where we live'. Oh ffs.

[drunkenshoe]

These threads are being very educative about a certain American culture. Some people are basically clueless about the most basic things in their own culture, let alone human culture(s) and the interesting thing is they are awfully persistent about not getting it. That tells me there is another thing under this.

There is almost a deliberate, self preserving ignorance and dumbing down on this issue, pretty much similar to religious group regarding secular 'intellectuals' and intellectualism as something 'evil' and to be scared of; a threat against civilisation. I don't know if it is the gross, overwheming bombardment of propaganda and deadly intense capitalism you people live under, but it is a mess. It's a bloody gangren wound.

The reaction to BLM objectives as in 'hijacked by SJWs' could only be a personal issue, becasue literally nobody can be that stupid who is aware of the issue itself. Certainly not the people here are, so there must be something else in this.

[drunkenshoe]

That is not a representation of my position on this subject. That is your reasoning of why I have the position.

What are you assuming my position is?

Ehh...I wrote up there what I think your position is. What are you on about, Pickel?

Here is a new one for you. Everything I wrote to Nonsensei, goes for you too.  You are much more transparent than you think and everything is in the open.

[Nonsensei]

Ds, I want to float to you the idea that whenever you think you understand what our position is on this issue, you have been and continue to be completely off base. It's so bad that you make yourself appear to be inventing positions for us, which you then address.

A prime example is the last post of mine you quoted. The point I was making was that BLM seems to only have a passing relationship to racial issues today. The movement used to be about racism and violence against Black people but now it inexplicably is including all of these other topics - topics that yes, absolutely, you will hear being parrot ed by SJW's.

I spelled this out very clearly in the last paragraph of my post but I guess you chose to completely ignore it like it didn't exist and instead demanded I provide a map of the SJW agenda whatever that means.

Sorry but demanding a map you know I can't provide doesn't make you right. This LGBT modern feminism safe space stuff is unquestionably the hallmark of SJW discourse and has been for years.

But that wasn't the point of my post. The real point was that BLM is no longer mainly about black lives, and based on the BLM website it appears that SJW'S are to blame for it.

[PickelledEggs]

Ehh...I wrote up there what I think your position is. What are you on about, Pickel?

Here is a new one for you. Everything I wrote to Nonsensei, goes for you too.  You are much more transparent than you think and everything is in the open.

Well... No. No you didn't. You explain why my position is, without identifying what my position is.
You seem to still severely misunderstanding and misrepresenting our position and points and until I know exactly what is going on in your head about what they are, not why they are, I will not continue. At this point I don't even know what you're discussing.



Sent from your mom.

[PickelledEggs]

It's like I said "my mom made chicken again... I'm so tired of chicken."

And you go
"you hate your mom because you guys have a lot of arguments and you think she wants to frustrate you with food you hate. "

That is how off base you seem. You keep missing the points and then jumping to conclusions to why you those points were made... Even though they were never made.

Sent from your mom.

[drunkenshoe]

Ds, I want to float to you the idea that whenever you think you understand what our position is on this issue, you have been and continue to be completely off base. It's so bad that you make yourself appear to be inventing positions for us, which you then address.

I explanied many times how you people ignore the fact that SJWs are got included in a ready politcial propaganda and what you are supposedly criticising is this, but you are not aware why this is happening.

A prime example is the last post of mine you quoted. The point I was making was that BLM seems to only have a passing relationship to racial issues today. The movement used to be about racism and violence against Black people but now it inexplicably is including all of these other topics - topics that yes, absolutely, you will hear being parrot ed by SJW's.

Yes, because racial problems do not go away when they are transgender or a lgbt group, actually they get worse. An overwhelming percentage of trangender homicide vicitms are black. Same goes for other lgbt groups.

I spelled this out very clearly in the last paragraph of my post but I guess you chose to completely ignore it like it didn't exist and instead demanded I provide a map of the SJW agenda whatever that means.

Sorry but demanding a map you know I can't provide doesn't make you right. This LGBT modern feminism safe space stuff is unquestionably the hallmark of SJW discourse and has been for years.

You are talking about SJWs as if they are some sort of an underground organisation bent on conquering the world. Are you aware of that? You are taking about agendas and interventions into groups as if some big conspiracy is going on.

But that wasn't the point of my post. The real point was that BLM is no longer mainly about black lives, and based on the BLM website it appears that SJW'S are to blame for it.

Oh is it? Because you, what was that you wrote, can't get what is being unapologetically black? How is it that you think these issue are not tangled up within? again because you have never experienced them and that you are totally alien to it?

When that son of a bitch in one of your jobs managed to wear you out and draw you from your job he did it because you were open about your atheism and you didn't apologise for it. According to the standard, traditional cultural hierarchy you should have been apologetic, secretive about your position according to him, because religious people are above atheist by numbers and many other cultural-social norms. No religious people would understand your position, nor defend you or stand by you in a work environment. Most religous people believe atheism is some sort of a cult trying to invade the world.

Only if you got organised by other atheists or nonreligious people who are willing to support you could help you in that situation if you fought back. And you wouldn't trust any religious people in that situation either.

Does this sound familiar to you a bit?

Now we get the other part of the issue. One of the reasons you were targeted was you being male and white. If you were a woman, you could get away with it or not taken seriously enough if nonwhite. Or it could have been worse, but they wuold play a role. Are you following? Your skin colour and your gender and your sexual orientation has a role in this bullshit on how you get treated when 'breaking' rules or 'obeying' them. For good or the bad. Women always suffer less of their politcial and religious opinions in certain societies, because they do not really 'count'; not seen as a threat and so not taken seriously; not listened. While white males are the main target.

Doesn't matter if you get it or not, being a white male makes you a main target because the social hierarchy defines as you one. Same thing goes when you commit a crime. The same dynamics go on for women and nonwhite people in a different way, with different connections.

Race and gender and sexual orientation can look completely unrelated from afar in their niches in human rights on paper, when it comes to social real life and human interaction, they are pretty much tangled up within in a human's life and there is a difference in being a black lgbt individual and a white one.



PS While you constantly blame me with not getting your position, you never read anything I write and take it something offered by a real life person. It's almost that you see me as some 'evil' android programmed to put Americans and white cis males down for pleasure. Last time I wrote you a proper post, your response was something idiotic as 'Oh do you know everything, drunkenshoe?'. You don't like to engage with someone, esp a woman -yes exactly- that can give you some response you might not be able to deal with. And as a result you just created an evil opponent, fantasy shoe character some how she doesn't get anything at all, but just being evil all around...Wohoooooo. And you think I should be engaging with someone who sees me as enemy and insults me whenever I respnd to him with an easy going manner?

I'll send an audio to you me talking about this and that, and may be then you get that I am actually a normal, walking talking person.

[drunkenshoe]

You explain why my position is, without identifying what my position is.

Good we are getting somewhere. Because that's your position. This is what you keep pitching. It's what you feel about SJW groups in general, not what you think about the issue. Because you define yourself on some side they are against. Your response is highly emotional while you keep blaming Shiranu for the same thing thinking you are being rational. The flaws you claim the group has are things that cannot be controlled but you are not even aware of it.

You keep picking reasons from the point of view on why BLM is wrong rather than why they exist in the first place. It's about your SJW hatred, not some opinion on why protest groups get in a certain vicious cycle, why this is almost always the same. GSO wrote about it, I wrote about it. This is the issue here. Instead of engaging something objective you are agreeing and sharing about SJW agendas in BLM.

This is the last post I am indulging your hide and seek. Honestly, I am not really excited to hear your extended ideas after your reaction to Shiranu. And I am afraid this is going to go as banning a random new member for supporting any SJW groups in the near future. Mark my words.

[FaithIsFilth]

I just want to point out that "racism" has more than one definition, which can cause confusion. Some say blacks in American can't be racist because they lack the institutional power to affect the lives of white people. Similarly whites living in China can't be racist against Chinese people because whites are the minority. I prefer to say blacks can be prejudiced or bigoted because when talking about individuals that is often what people mean. Same thing with homophobic, which is a term I don't like because not every prejudice against homosexuals is based on fear. I prefer "He's bigoted against gay people" or "Tina is black and prejudiced against white people." I think it is more precise.

Blacks targeting random white people driving by to attack are affecting the lives of white people by beating the shit out of them, are they not? How often does one put things the way you just did when defending the "blacks can't be racist" claim. Your explanation I don't have much of a problem with, but that's not how someone from BLM is going to respond. They're not going to say, "yeah, we've got a lot of prejudiced people here at BLM and a lot of prejudiced people that support our cause. They're prejudiced, not racist." You just don't hear that. What you usually hear is more along the lines of, "I can say whatever the hell I want about white people, and you can take no issue with it because I can't possibly be racist. My skin is black." Even most of the white people who defend them will say pretty much the same thing. "Blacks are a minority so they can't be racist" and they just leave it at that, without bringing up how they're actually prejudiced rather than racist. This attitude is harmful to the cause of making things better for blacks, because it sounds like the person is defending racist attitudes, and this type of thing is only going to bring the movement down.

Like I said before though, blacks have been through a lot and are still going through a lot, so what I want is for the government to fix the schools, the for-profit prison system to become a thing of the past, the war on drugs to end, and police brutality to go down even further, to make blacks less inclined to be racist or prejudiced against white people in general. I'm not just going to say fuck them because they are racists. I want to help them become less racist by giving them more opportunity in life.

[GSOgymrat]

Blacks targeting random white people driving by to attack are affecting the lives of white people by beating the shit out of them, are they not? How often does one put things the way you just did when defending the "blacks can't be racist" claim. Your explanation I don't have much of a problem with, but that's not how someone from BLM is going to respond. They're not going to say, "yeah, we've got a lot of prejudiced people here at BLM and a lot of prejudiced people that support our cause. They're prejudiced, not racist." You just don't hear that. What you usually hear is more along the lines of, "I can say whatever the hell I want about white people, and you can take no issue with it because I can't possibly be racist. My skin is black." Even most of the white people who defend them will say pretty much the same thing. "Blacks are a minority so they can't be racist" and they just leave it at that, without bringing up how they're actually prejudiced rather than racist. This attitude is harmful to the cause of making things better for blacks, because it sounds like the person is defending racist attitudes, and this type of thing is only going to bring the movement down.

Saying "I'm not racist" doesn't mean much no matter who says it. My strategy is to focus on behavior rather than labels. "Attitudes" are subjective and difficult to address but behaviors such as name-calling, calls to violence, physical attacks, destruction of property are objective facts and less easily dismissed. People, no matter what their skin color, should be responsible for their own behavior. I would say drive-by attacks of people based on their skin color is something a reasonable BLM person would object to, although not all people are reasonable.

[PickelledEggs]

Good we are getting somewhere. Because that's your position. This is what you keep pitching. It's what you feel about SJW groups in general, not what you think about the issue. Because you define yourself on some side they are against. Your response is highly emotional while you keep blaming Shiranu for the same thing thinking you are being rational. The flaws you claim the group has are things that cannot be controlled but you are not even aware of it.

You keep picking reasons from the point of view on why BLM is wrong rather than why they exist in the first place. It's about your SJW hatred, not some opinion on why protest groups get in a certain vicious cycle, why this is almost always the same. GSO wrote about it, I wrote about it. This is the issue here. Instead of engaging something objective you are agreeing and sharing about SJW agendas in BLM.

This is the last post I am indulging your hide and seek. Honestly, I am not really excited to hear your extended ideas after your reaction to Shiranu. And I am afraid this is going to go as banning a random new member for supporting any SJW groups in the near future. Mark my words.

It's not hide and seek when I'm asking you to actually repeat back to me what my position is, so I know exactly what I'm discussing with you. And that's fine. If you don't want to give me a roadmap of where you twisted my position to in your head, I'll move on from discussing it with you. I've learned from the past times you've done this that it's not worth the effort to try discussing something with you if you're stubbornly insisting that I'm saying something that I'm not and even more than twisting what I was saying, focusing on the "why" of that distorted representation of what I said.

You still are misrepresenting my position. Even with this last post that I quoted. Until you can actually go read and actually figure it out, which isn't hard to do, instead of twisting it to something else, I cannot go back to having the discussion with you.

[drunkenshoe]

It's not hide and seek when I'm asking you to actually repeat back to me what my position is, so I know exactly what I'm discussing with you. And that's fine. If you don't want to give me a roadmap of where you twisted my position to in your head, I'll move on from discussing it with you.

You still are misrepresenting my position. Even with this last post that I quoted. Until you can actually go read and actually figure it out, which isn't hard to do, instead of twisting it to something else, I cannot go back to having the discussion with you.

I am curious what do you think I would gain by 'twisting' your position in my head on some domestic issue about your country.

We haven't discussed anything from the beginning. So I haven't represented/misrepresented anything. I went into a personal conversation with you, I shouldn't have done that. It's not necessary. It's probbaly about the change I went through lately. (When we last spoke in fb, I told you what happened because you changed, remember? Then I said nevermind when you asked what has chanaged. Yeah something like that. Meaning I already thought about this before.)   

I've learned from the past times you've done this that it's not worth the effort to try discussing something with you if you're stubbornly insisting that I'm saying something that I'm not and even more than twisting what I was saying, focusing on the "why" of that distorted representation of what I said.

So this is a premature reaction and also not necessary. I wasn't 'accusing' you with anything. There are lots of difference reasons why people insist on their opinions to begin with rather than playing games to distort/misrepresent others' opinions and positions. Generally people don't -and certainly I don't- comment on a subject with an agenda to misrepresent others. But I do believe your reactions to certain things have changed and it will have consequences for you and people around you. That's it.

E: So basically my mistake. You can ignore it all. Not really important.

[Duncle]

The concept of race- that humanity is divided into biologically separate groups that represent sub-species of some kind- is a specifically modern western one. Its genesis lies in mid-eighteenth century developments in biological classification; both Buffon and Linnaeus wrote about race as a biological category. "Scientific" racism had its heyday in the period from 1850 to the end of WW2. The "scientific" racists produced elaborate hierarchies of allegedly iinferior and superior racial types, with pale-skinned Europeans ("whites") inevitably at the top, and dark-skinned Africans and Native Australians ("blacks") inevitably at the bottom.

Race proved to be a popular concept, and its sadly unsurprising that this was the case. The historical period in question was one in which pale-skinned Europeans were busily exploiting their dark-skinned slaves, and busily conquering lands inhabited by people with differently coloured skin. The discourse of "scientific" racism that people like de Gobineau articulated was a very convenient justification for their atrocious behaviour towards their differently-skin-coloured victims. And skin colour wasn't the only thing- Jews were also classified as a "race", giving allegedly "scientific" support to the anti-Semitism that had been endemic for centuries in western culture. And we all know how that one ended up.

Happily, modern Biology has pretty much discarded the concept of "race" completely- it turns out that "race" just isn't a useful way of looking at population genetics.

Now...one might think that progressives and others on the left would wish to do likewise and say something like "Race should not be a legitimate category in political discourse". After all, as well as being unscientific, "race" has a proven its toxicity over and over and over again. But no...some supposed left-wingers- in the absence of a better term I'll call them SJWs- actually buy into the whole idea of racial distinctions being fundamental. In other words: SJWs accept and promulgate the worldview that underlies racial supremacism, while simultaneously claiming to be fighting against it.

Note that I say that SJWs are supposedly left-wing. Personally, I view them as belonging much more on the authoritarian right. The difference between the SJWs and the KKK (and their ilk) seems to me to be this: the SJWs are pushing for priveleges for relatively marginalized groups; the KKK wants priveleges for the powerful pale-skinned majority. Thats an important distinction because it makes the KKK far more dangerous- their support base is potentially much bigger and stronger. But other than that, the two have a great deal in common: as well as a shared underlying worldview, they're both pro-censorship, anti-individualist (people are mainly seen in terms of group membership), pro-quotas, tolerant of racially-motivated violence from "their" side, and so on.

SJWs and white supremacism are two sides of the same coin. The rational thing to do is to throw away the coin.                   

[mauricio]

I can't understand? Get your head out of your ass. If you can't, remember that you don't need to respond everything that has your name on it. After all, if you are criticising the reactions of the protests of a minority group, at least check your reactions to the simple little remark in an internet forum while you are constantly pitching your annoyance to some real life people. You get pissed off by videos made for 15 year old girls, kiddo. Get real.

No, you haven't put anything on here. None of you have. All you do is whining about something perfectly 'normal' that has been going for thousands of years.

See, "This movement is toxic, it is hostile, but I agree with some of its points, but I don't like it" is not enough. Neither is it a response. All you are reacting is the FEAR. The uncomformism of it. There is an issue. A very serious domestic issue of races that has been going through for a loooooong time. None of you -or me- is living nor has lived the consequences of this issue(s). But what you have been doing though is sitting down in front of your computers and throwing about how fucking wrong a group of black people are reacting to this issue. That is it. Your personal emotions and your personal experiences.


Could you please tell me,

-How should they react?

-How should they protest?

-How should they talk, advertise, appeal...etc.

-How should they behave in or out of protest?

-What kind of a group they should build that wouldn't get affected from any kind of politcial bullshit?

-Is that possible? Has it ever been possible?


What is your argument? How should Black Lives Matter be/do/behave...etc...what is your dream about their protest as a white fucking citizen who gets annoyed by 'why feminism isn't about compliments or catcalls' videos or a series of posts one poster made around a general stance which you hate; in his case being a Social Justice Worker?

It's simple. BLM and SJW feminists who fall for psychological traps and the spooks of collectivism and identity politics are wrong on various levels and points. You are just making an irrelevant argument if this is your attempt at refuting anti-SJW criticism. You cannot refute a criticism by saying: "but... but you do not know the correct answer either HUR DUR". And the extreme arrogance which makes your posts barely readable is hilarious. You have no ground to dismiss anyone's arguments considering you never even address them you just whine about how basic they are because the problem is so hard to fix and they are giving no solutions, well neither are you, so if i bought your retarded logic i guess i would get to be a smug asshole against you too. You do not seem to understand that a way to help fix complex problems is by slowly shaving off the trash and establishing a baseline for intelligent discussion. SJWs are getting shaved off.