Florida Gay Nightclub Mass Shooting

[drunkenshoe]

Not saying that they are.
What I am saying is that they will have to live by our laws. There can't be any isolated enclaves that are laws unto themselves.

That goes without saying. It's not even a question. Those morons talking about sharia law demand is just...LOL

[Hijiri Byakuren]

So I'm a gun nut? Good to know. Thanks for the heads up.

I said "unlikely to own a gun." Not a gun nut either, but I own a gun. Most people don't.

BTW protection wasn't on the list of reasons I had when I bought my guns

Never said it was. My little crow-shooter isn't going to help me much against a home invader.

but you seem to have it all figured out so who am I to argue?

You just want to have an argument, and you don't care what the other person is actually making a case for.

[reasonist]

In the US:

Supermarkets:   37,716
McDonalds:        14,350
Starbucks:         10,843


Gun shops:        64,747

[Nonsensei]

In the US:

Supermarkets:   37,716
McDonalds:        14,350
Starbucks:         10,843


Gun shops:        64,747

Hair Salons: 86,000

Jesus fucking Christmas time to ban fancy hair Americans like it too much.

Your first one, supermarkets, is deceptive. How about we include markets that are not supermarkets? Every mini mart, Farm stand, and pharmacy with a grocery section. Numbers start to look pretty different don't they?

Same for the other 2. Its not the number of McDonald's in the US it's the number of restaurants. It's not the number of Starbucks in the us. It's every place in America you can buy a cup of coffee.

After all your gun store. Umber includes every place you can buy a gun, right?

Your numbers are deceptive but thankfully the deception was not that good.

[PopeyesPappy]

Hair Salons: 86,000

Jesus fucking Christmas time to ban fancy hair Americans like it too much.

Your first one, supermarkets, is deceptive. How about we include markets that are not supermarkets? Every mini mart, Farm stand, and pharmacy with a grocery section. Numbers start to look pretty different don't they?

Same for the other 2. Its not the number of McDonald's in the US it's the number of restaurants. It's not the number of Starbucks in the us. It's every place in America you can buy a cup of coffee.

After all your gun store. Umber includes every place you can buy a gun, right?

Your numbers are deceptive but thankfully the deception was not that good.

64,747 is probably based on the number of active FFL's at some point in time. Most of those FFL holders don't have a brick and mortar stores where they sell guns. Many of them don't sell guns to the public at all. The real number of retail gun shops in the US is probably closer to the number of Starbucks or McDonald's than even supermarkets. That's even if you include the supermarkets (ie Walmart) that sell guns.

[Mike Cl]

Some people never learn. You can't fix stupid.

This really is a problem of organized theists vs the rest of the world.  The religions that have a strong hierarchy and priesthood are the problem.  These organizations always spew hate and us vs them.  And always will, since that is how they make their living and stay wealthy.  I see organized religions as THE problem of the world.  It has been in the past and will be in the future. 

[Baruch]

In the US:

Supermarkets:   37,716
McDonalds:        14,350
Starbucks:         10,843


Gun shops:        64,747

I consider McDonalds and Starbucks to be more threatening ... but not Supermarkets ;-)

[FaithIsFilth]

People coming here from elsewhere must accept our laws and understand our rights and the rights of others. We will not allow the establishment of Sharia enclaves in the US. Simple as that. Muslims going to Europe might get away w/that there but not here. Here you can keep whatever rule you like for yourself - but you cannot impose that rule on others, even if it means that you have a stroke as you fill w/hatred.

lol understand your rights, while your country is bombing their fellow Muslims all around the world to mush. War is war. You can't wage war without expecting casualties on your own side. The guy was an admirer of ISIS, so if he didn't kill these club goers, he likely would have killed some other people eventually.  America had this coming, and has it coming again a hundred times over. How soft are Americans becoming? You're allowed to bomb the shit out of Muslims, but then when they take the war to you on your lands, the people whine about how unfair the Muslim terrorists are being. The Muslim terrorists do not have to follow any rules about keeping the war in the mid east and out of your country. America asked for this war. In war, people take hits on both sides.

[marom1963]

lol understand your rights, while your country is bombing their fellow Muslims all around the world to mush. War is war. You can't wage war without expecting casualties on your own side. The guy was an admirer of ISIS, so if he didn't kill these club goers, he likely would have killed some other people eventually.  America had this coming, and has it coming again a hundred times over. How soft are Americans becoming? You're allowed to bomb the shit out of Muslims, but then when they take the war to you on your lands, the people whine about how unfair the Muslim terrorists are being. The Muslim terrorists do not have to follow any rules about keeping the war in the mid east and out of your country. America asked for this war. In war, people take hits on both sides.

I was talking about people who come here as immigrants - to live among us, not to make war on us.
If this particular attack can be shown to have been due to anti-gay bias, America had that coming? Why?
You do realize that the war in the Middle East has be restrained - that the US and Russia have withheld the full force of their might? In a few short, lazy weeks, the Russians reduced Syria to a pile of dust - w/o working up a sweat. There won't be any more Russian airplanes going down for awhile. The stupid bastards over in the Middle East had best wake up before it's too late. They just might get Donald Trump to deal with come January - and they might just find the whole coast of western Asia leveled over night. Millions of dead men, women, and children. It wouldn't take much to do it. You can tweak the 1200 pound grizzly bear on its nose for only so long.

[FaithIsFilth]

I was talking about people who come here as immigrants - to live among us, not to make war on us.
If this particular attack can be shown to have been due to anti-gay bias, America had that coming? Why?

I have nothing but love for the LGBTQ community. My avatar is a pansexual transgender person. The thing is though, you can't force Muslims to accept homosexuality. You can have better education in schools that teaches kids that there's nothing wrong with being gay or trans, but you can't force Muslims to accept or respect this stuff. The best you can do is try to educate them, and if that fails, then lock them up in cases where they commit an act of violence against a gay person. That's really all that can be done. Do Muslims have to respect the LGBTQ community? No, they aren't obligated to do that, and they never will be.

What do you mean if the attack can be shown to be due to anti-gay bias? The attack wasn't because of just that. That's silly. The guy made a call to pledge his allegiance to the Islamic State. The Islamic State, a group that is at war with the United States, has called for Muslims around the world to act out in violence against Westerners. That's what this guy did. Whether he was a lone wolf or not, he was fulfilling his duty to the leader of IS who has called for these type of attacks, and he was fulfilling his duty to Allah. He had pledged allegiance to the Islamic State, and their leader has called for Westerners to be killed. Not just gay Westerners. The guy was a sick son of a bitch with an allegiance to ISIS. If he didn't act out on the day he did, he would have been a ticking timebomb. Anything probably could have set him off. A draw Muhammad contest in his hometown maybe? I don't know, but if you're saying that the attack was due to anti-gay bias and that's that, I think that thinking is way too simplistic.

You do realize that the war in the Middle East has be restrained - that the US and Russia have withheld the full force of their might? In a few short, lazy weeks, the Russians reduced Syria to a pile of dust - w/o working up a sweat. There won't be any more Russian airplanes going down for awhile. The stupid bastards over in the Middle East had best wake up before it's too late. They just might get Donald Trump to deal with come January - and they might just find the whole coast of western Asia leveled over night. Millions of dead men, women, and children. It wouldn't take much to do it. You can tweak the 1200 pound grizzly bear on its nose for only so long.

Yes, of course the US could be hitting Muslims overseas harder, but so what? Bombing hospitals and weddings is already plenty enough to piss off Muslims at home and abroad and to get them to act out in violence against Westerners.

[reasonist]

Hair Salons: 86,000

Jesus fucking Christmas time to ban fancy hair Americans like it too much.

Your first one, supermarkets, is deceptive. How about we include markets that are not supermarkets? Every mini mart, Farm stand, and pharmacy with a grocery section. Numbers start to look pretty different don't they?

Same for the other 2. Its not the number of McDonald's in the US it's the number of restaurants. It's not the number of Starbucks in the us. It's every place in America you can buy a cup of coffee.

After all your gun store. Umber includes every place you can buy a gun, right?

Your numbers are deceptive but thankfully the deception was not that good.

First of all, they are not MY numbers, but I can see that I hit a nerve. As a Canadian, I can only shake my head about the gun culture to the south. My question would be though: how is it working for you? Just by the numbers of the CDC, the US had 13,286 people die from guns and over 28,000 wounded last year. Your gun homicide rate is 30 times than the rate of the UK for example. 10 times the one here in Canada. You had 372 mass shootings last year and 64 school shootings. But of course...the second amendment. The one written for front loaded muskets in 1789, that one. Btw, the British are not coming anymore.

[Nonsensei]

First of all, they are not MY numbers, but I can see that I hit a nerve. As a Canadian, I can only shake my head about the gun culture to the south. My question would be though: how is it working for you? Just by the numbers of the CDC, the US had 13,286 people die from guns and over 28,000 wounded last year. Your gun homicide rate is 30 times than the rate of the UK for example. 10 times the one here in Canada. You had 372 mass shootings last year and 64 school shootings. But of course...the second amendment. The one written for front loaded muskets in 1789, that one. Btw, the British are not coming anymore.

I've already given my answer to this argument I'm this thread and it hasn't changed. There are a lot of gun deaths in the US. Taking away guns would mean there would be a lot of deaths using some other method.  The only way to reduce killing is to address the causes. Taking away one of the tools accomplishes nothing.

And yes you did hit a nerve. It's the same nerve that always gets hit when people use bullshit numbers and analogies in order to paint ad dramatic picture.

[Shiranu]

It's like Randy Carson is posting in this thread...

[marom1963]

I have nothing but love for the LGBTQ community. My avatar is a pansexual transgender person. The thing is though, you can't force Muslims to accept homosexuality. You can have better education in schools that teaches kids that there's nothing wrong with being gay or trans, but you can't force Muslims to accept or respect this stuff. The best you can do is try to educate them, and if that fails, then lock them up in cases where they commit an act of violence against a gay person. That's really all that can be done. Do Muslims have to respect the LGBTQ community? No, they aren't obligated to do that, and they never will be.

What do you mean if the attack can be shown to be due to anti-gay bias? The attack wasn't because of just that. That's silly. The guy made a call to pledge his allegiance to the Islamic State. The Islamic State, a group that is at war with the United States, has called for Muslims around the world to act out in violence against Westerners. That's what this guy did. Whether he was a lone wolf or not, he was fulfilling his duty to the leader of IS who has called for these type of attacks, and he was fulfilling his duty to Allah. He had pledged allegiance to the Islamic State, and their leader has called for Westerners to be killed. Not just gay Westerners. The guy was a sick son of a bitch with an allegiance to ISIS. If he didn't act out on the day he did, he would have been a ticking timebomb. Anything probably could have set him off. A draw Muhammad contest in his hometown maybe? I don't know, but if you're saying that the attack was due to anti-gay bias and that's that, I think that thinking is way too simplistic.
Yes, of course the US could be hitting Muslims overseas harder, but so what? Bombing hospitals and weddings is already plenty enough to piss off Muslims at home and abroad and to get them to act out in violence against Westerners.

You awaken the tit for tat mentality, you had best have an equal amount of tit for tat. You get someone like Ronald Reagan in office, and he hit Kaddaffi so hard that nobody heard from Kaddaffi for 20 years. Trump has Putin for a pal. The two of them would run right down the coast from Turkey to the border of Israel and leave a wasteland in their wake. We're not talking about in any shape to retaliate any time soon. As for Muslim pals elsewhere - they'll be more than a little bit cowed. It would be carpet bombing like you haven't seen since WW 2. Then, forget about the oil. It would just be taken. The American public has long since been primed for just such a war. The average American would not wring his/her hands in grief. The economy would boom. The troops would be heroes. And Muslims in America would have to hide in their basements. David may have beaten Goliath - but we all know that the Bible was full of shit.

[marom1963]

It's like Randy Carson is posting in this thread...

Who?