Cop: "You're Recording Me? I Will Pull My Gun On You."

[widdershins]

The full uncut video suggests otherwise.

First of all, we can clearly see the boat he's working on as he backs away from the cop. We can clearly see him empty his pockets out onto the car. The cop knows for a fact that he's not armed. Any claim to the contrary after that part of the video is total horse shit.

Again, I'm not necessarily disagreeing that the cameraman could have handled it better, he certainly could have. But the fact of the matter is that the cop initiated and escalated an unnecessary confrontation.

Every bit of that is speculation based on what you think you know.

First, we can clearly see "a boat".  We do not see from the video that this was "the boat he was working on".

Next, we can clearly see him put his phone and his keys on the hood, not empty his pockets.  And this is AFTER he's told, not to empty his pockets, but to take his hand out of his pocket.  We do not even see his pockets.  For all we "know" the guy could be in full camouflage complete with face paint and a machete strapped to his back.  We can "assume" that he emptied his pockets.  That's how it appears.  But we do not "see him" empty his pockets.

Since we never see the guy we cannot know that "the cop knows for a fact he's not armed".  WE don't know "for a fact" that he's not armed so we cannot say what the cop knew or did not know.  Judging by the fact that the gun raises only once, right after the phone and keys are thrown onto the hood, we can speculate that he was doing some motions, likely searching his pocket for any items he might have missed, which the cop found at least possibly threatening.

If I'm a cop and I ask you to take your hands out of your pockets and you respond with, "No!", I'm sorry, but I'm pulling my gun just in case.  It was immediately obvious that the guy was combative, which is "threatening".  And if you sit there and stare at an officer, do you think he's not going to stop to see what's up?  So what if he's pointing a camera?  Realistically, what's the difference between that and staring at the cop, which is something which will generally attract a cop's attention.

Shouts at him? It doesn't flow that way. The only reason that cop gets out of his car in the first place BECAUSE he is being recorded. And he pulls out of his gun to SCARE him afterwards. Also, in a country where cop brutality is a hot issue it is very normal for someone to panic and raise their voice in that situation.

Also speculation.  You don’t “know” why the cop got out of the car.  It was probably because the guy was filming him.  But if you’re walking down the street and you see someone following you with a camera, wouldn’t you also want to know what was up?

You also don’t “know” why he pulled his gun, though realistically we can speculate that it was because the man had his hand in his pocket, something EVERY officer will ask you not to do since forever, and upon being asked politely to remove the hand from the pocket immediately became belligerent, thus, a threat.  I don’t “know”, but I do “believe” that the officer was likely following protocol.

And in a country where police brutality is a real issue one would think it would be normal for someone to be “afraid” of the police, not “combative” with the police.  Did this guy sound like he was “afraid” to you?  He wasn’t afraid.  He was pissed because “you guys have done enough to my family”.

This is some pissed off guy whose family has had unnamed run-ins with the police which may or may not have been some abuse on the part of corrupt police.  I have a cousin who was in trouble constantly with the police in his youth, and I can tell you, his family sounded like this guy.  His mom said they were "picking on him" when they pulled him over.  They only pulled him over because of who he was.  If they weren't "picking on him" they wouldn't ever have even known the car was stolen.  Seriously, he got pulled over driving a stolen car because the police were "picking on him".  So you'll forgive me if I don't take this guy at his word and rely solely on what I can see in the video, which is some jackass poking at a cop who handles it very well and mostly professionally.  Hell, even the picture he took of the guy was very possibly for identification if anything were to have happened or to document what he was looking at it in case he needed it.  A cop generally doesn't get photographic or video evidence that there is nothing suspicious whatsoever before getting out of his car to harass him.

[widdershins]

Indeed, he is lucky he is white.

He does. He empties his pocket to on a car. And he clearly declares himself unarmed.

LOL, well THAT should have put the cop at ease right there.  Because every cop knows that a bad guy CAN'T lie to you about not being armed.  That would be cheating.

[PickelledEggs]

LOL, well THAT should have put the cop at ease right there.  Because every cop knows that a bad guy CAN'T lie to you about not being armed.  That would be cheating.

Pshh. This is 2008 now. No one lies anymore.

[PickelledEggs]

Since you ignore the whole thing going down there bending backwards building an 'argument' on the word 'confrontation' and nothing more to defend an abusive, bullying cop, it is pretty much useless to discuss.

Ok. Again...

The events in order that they happened:

*guy with boat approaches cop car with hand in pocket*
*cop gets out of car and tells guy to take hand out of pocket*
guy with boat says "I have done absolutely nothing. No."
*cop takes gun out of holster and holds to the side*
*guy with boat tries ordering cop to put gun away*

What is there to be confused about here that the cop would feel the need to be ready to defend himself?

[Sargon The Grape]

The guy is lucky he's not black, or he would be dead.

The cop's lucky he didn't do this in Texas, or he would be dead.

If a cop tells you to take your hand out of your pocket, you take your hand out of your pocket.

Which he clearly does in the video. After emptying his pocket. Did we watch the same video?

If the guy started recording him without anything even happening yet, it's suspicious.

If a cop stops in front of your house for 30 seconds and then stops across the street, it's suspicious.

You guys seem to be ignoring the fact that he only pulled his gun after the boat guy started getting more confrontational with his words and started shouting at him. That is police protocol. To be ready to defend yourself.

The guy got more confrontational when the cop decided to start intimidating him. That is common sense: to be ready to defend yourself.

Did I mention the guy had his hands in his pocket and the cop wasn't sure if it was a weapon? Oh. only about 4 or 5 times now? oh right. Ignore that too.

Unless the guy has three hands, his hands were clearly out of his pocket. But let's just ignore all those times when we clearly see his other hand, it would distract us from defending the asshole cop.

[drunkenshoe]

LOL, well THAT should have put the cop at ease right there.  Because every cop knows that a bad guy CAN'T lie to you about not being armed.  That would be cheating.

Oh yeah because I don't know that people lie, right. I am stupid that way, wohooo. Everything about the context in the post I wrote before about paranoia and the obvious agitation of a scared man followed by a cop pulling a gun doesn't mean anything to you, does it? Because by now you are in a freaking thriller movie anyway. Human reality doesn't mean shit. Just flew above your head. 

HE STARTS TO MOVE BACK AND GET AWAY FROM THE COP -WITH A CAMERA IN HIS HANDS- AS SOON AS THE COP MOVES TOWARDS HIM WITH A GUN. IS THAT A BEHAVIOUR OF SOMEONE THAT IS DANGEROUSLY ARMED AND LIKELY TO SHOOT-ATTACK?

Instead of questioning the flow of the behaviour presented by an official, you are playing SHERLOCK HOLMES. You are writing an imaginary, escalated, hollywood scenario with 'what ifs', 'was that his boat, was he working on it?' from a very simple situation because that's the only thing you can think of. You can't think in another way when a cop pulling gun and a scared man come together. Not what the cop is doing overall. BUT did the man deserve it or not? Actions are OK for a cop to present. THEY ARE NOT. This is the biggest issue here. This is NOT NORMAL. 

The man DIDN'T DO ANYTHING, because he later made a complaint about the cop. So STOP playing Sherlock on what he did when and where.

There is nothing in those videos that indicates that man is a dangerously armed suspect who provoked a police officer or threatened him. The cop is pissed off for being recorded, because he is pissed off by the hot issue of people recording cops.

[Unbeliever]

Because the alternative to that is a police force that is MUCH less able to protect the public effectively.

The job of the cops isn't protecting the public:

http://www.policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_arch&article_id=341&issue_id=72004

Law enforcement generally does not have a federal constitutional duty to protect one private person from another. For example, if a drunk driver injures a pedestrian or a drug dealer beats up an informant, agencies and their officers usually would not be liable for those injuries because there was no duty to protect.

The SCOTUS has ruled, though, that citizens can video- or audiotape public officials, including cops:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glik_v._Cunniffe


As far as I can tell from the video (which admittedly isn't enough) the cop had no good reason to even be talking to the guy, but there's insufficient info to tell. Merely using a video camera wouldn't be enough, though, I don't think.

[drunkenshoe]

Ok. Again...

The events in order that they happened:

*guy with boat approaches cop car with hand in pocket*
*cop gets out of car and tells guy to take hand out of pocket*
guy with boat says "I have done absolutely nothing. No."
*cop takes gun out of holster and holds to the side*
*guy with boat tries ordering cop to put gun away*

What is there to be confused about here that the cop would feel the need to be ready to defend himself?

You are doing the same thing. You have already accepted the cop's behaviour and just looking for the signs of how did the guy 'deserve' it. I wrote what I think above.

[PickelledEggs]

HE STARTS TO MOVE BACK AND GET AWAY FROM THE COP -WITH A CAMERA IN HIS HANDS- AS SOON AS THE COP MOVES TOWARDS HIM WITH A GUN. IS THAT A BEHAVIOUR OF SOMEONE THAT IS DANGEROUSLY ARMED AND LIKELY TO SHOOT-ATTACK?

Make your text as bold as you want. It doesn't change the fact that when the cop told the guy to get his hands out of his pockets, the boat guy yelled "I didn't do anything wrong. No", giving a VERY good reason for him to be ready with his gun.

What part of that do you not understand?

[aitm]

Yeah that's the issue here, aitm. A man -who actually made an offical complaint by the way- looking for a 15 mins fame in youtube. That's what is wrong here.

did he make the complaint before the incident? Of course not, I have no idea why you think that is relevant. So he made a complaint, that is the fucking idea!  You know what though, if the asshole didn't drop everything he was doing and run to the street to start videoing the po-po maybe the jack-ass wouldn't be able to make a compliant and become the latest internet hero. But that wouldn't fit your preconceived notion that every cop is a piece of shit out to kill every person that may be sitting in their yard playing with kids and not doing anything wrong at all….because that is what happened here right?

This ass-hole watched a patrol car circle the neighborhood and decided that he was going to be confrontational, openly mock the officer while videoing him and flipping him the finger and become a fucking HERO OF THE INTERNET.  And hey, he got a few dumb fucks to buy it.

[widdershins]

Oh yeah because I don't know that people lie, right. I am stupid that way, wohooo. Everything about the context in the post I wrote before about paranoia and the obvious agitation of a scared man followed by a cop pulling a gun doesn't mean anything to you, does it? Because by now you are in a freaking thriller movie anyway. Human reality doesn't mean shit. Just flew above your head. 

HE STARTS TO MOVE BACK AND GET AWAY FROM THE COP -WITH A CAMERA IN HIS HANDS- AS SOON AS THE COP MOVES TOWARDS HIM WITH A GUN. IS THAT A BEHAVIOUR OF SOMEONE THAT IS DANGEROUSLY ARMED AND LIKELY TO SHOOT-ATTACK?

Instead of questioning the flow of the behaviour presented by an official, you are playing SHERLOCK HOLMES. You are writing an imaginary, escalated, hollywood scenario with 'what ifs', 'was that his boat, was he working on it?' from a very simple situation because that's the only thing you can think of. You can't think in another way when a cop pulling gun and a scared man come together. Not what the cop is doing overall. BUT did the man deserve it or not? Actions are OK for a cop to present. THEY ARE NOT. This is the biggest issue here. This is NOT NORMAL. 

The man DIDN'T DO ANYTHING, because he later made a complaint about the cop. So STOP playing Sherlock on what he did when and where.

There is nothing in those videos that indicates that man is a dangerously armed suspect who provoked a police officer or threatened him. The cop is pissed off for being recorded, because he is pissed off by the hot issue of people recording cops.

Dude, chill the hell out.  I never said you were stupid or any such shit.  I made a joke about a comment I found amusing.  Go wash the sand out of your pussy so you can relax a little.

There isn't a single "what if" in what I wrote.  I made no assumptions.  I shot down quite a few assumptions, but I made none of my own.  And I imagined no scenario.  I commented on what I saw and heard in the video.  The man had his hand in his pocket.  Nobody disputes this.  The man was asked to remove his hand from his pocket.  Nobody disputes this.  I happen to know for a fact, as it is common knowledge, that all officers will ask you to remove your hand from your pocket.  I've seen this in life, I've seen this on cops, I've seen this countless places.  I think it is safe to assume that this is standard procedure.  The man can be clearly heard verbally refusing to remove his hand from his pocket, and then can be seen tossing things on the hood, presumably from his pocket, thus repeatedly placing his hands in his pocket.  Yes, this IS a "threatening move" to a police officer.  The officer pulled his gun to have it at the ready, but he never pointed it at the man.

You're also drawing a huge assumption that the man was scared, something not supported by the video and the audio suggests the man is more pissed off than scared.  You make a lot of assumptions here.  The man didn't do anything.  Did you SEE the man to know he was doing nothing at all?  The man filed a complaint, which, apparently, automatically means the officer is guilty of wrongdoing.  Then there is "nothing in this video to indicate the man is a dangerously armed suspect"?  Is the man even IN the video?  No.  So there is also nothing in this video to indicate that the man is NOT a dangerously armed suspect.  You don't know WHAT the man was doing, what he looked like, nothing.  You know NOTHING about the man other than his voice and the movement of his camera.  Yet you draw all these conclusions about what went on.  So how to you KNOW the man "didn't do anything"?  You can't even fucking see him!  And the cop is pissed off?  Did the cop look pissed off?  Did he raise his voice?  Did he say, "Get on the fucking ground NOW!"?  Or did he politely ask the man to take his hand out of his pocket and get an angry response from the man?  What indication do you have that the cop is pissed off, much less the exact cause of him being pissed off?  Who the fuck is playing Sherlock Holmes here?  You're the one who claims to know what a man not in the video didn't do and what the cop was thinking and why based on what is NOT in the video.

The cop did nothing "to" the man.  He drew his gun.  He never threatened the man with it, never pointed it at him.  I'm sorry, but I see nothing wrong with that.  If that bothers you, fuck yourself.  It doesn't bother me.  I live in a small town of about 6,000 people.  Tiny little town.  But EVEN HERE cops have been involved in shootouts.  One cop was shot in the throat a couple of decades ago.  And there was a shootout half a fucking block from my house about 2 years ago.  If you think a cop has no business drawing his gun when he feels threatened then, yes, I DO think you're a fucking moron.  Being a cop is dangerous, even here in Hicksville.  There is a very real chance of injury or death every single fucking day.  They DO put their lives on the line to keep the streets safe, working under a VERY REAL threat to their lives.  I respect that and I'm willing to give them a little fucking slack.  If I behave in an irrational, combative manor with my hand in my pocket, yes, I expect the officer dealing with me will likely draw his gun.  If he points it at me because I'm being an ass, his finger on the trigger, that's going a bit far.  But this cop didn't do that, Mr. Holmes (may I call you Sherlock?).  As far as I can see his finger never even touched the trigger.

[widdershins]

A man followed by a cop with a pulled gun gets agitated. Really? Unfathomable.

Are you watching a different video than me, dipshit?  Because what I saw was not "A man followed by a cop with a pulled gun gets agitated".  What I was was "An agitated man prompts a cop to pull a gun."  The order in which things happen is kind of important here, Sherlock.

[PickelledEggs]

Are you watching a different video than me, dipshit?  Because what I saw was not "A man followed by a cop with a pulled gun gets agitated".  What I was was "An agitated man prompts a cop to pull a gun."  The order in which things happen is kind of important here, Sherlock.

hey hey hey... I'm in agreement with you on this topic, but no need to call someone a dipshit.

[Shiranu]

ITT:

-Intimidation with a gun is acceptable. As good Americans, you should know this... you DO NOT upholster and flash your piece unless you intend to pull the trigger. Period.
- You also only pull a gun out when there is clear and immediate threat, which even if You want to say comes from the hand in the pocket... this is a situation the cop actively engaged in. And what about once he emptied his pockets? What was the justification then?
-A cop is justified in confronting someone because, "it's their job", and they "might" have drugs or something in their pocket because they have their hand in their pocket... all without giving any clear reason as to why they are needlessly leaving their vehicle and escalating the situation.
- If you record a cop, you deserve to have a gun pulled on you because you are "antagonizing" the officer... even though that recording doesn't mean Jackdiddily shit and poses zero threat to him.
- If you don't handle the situation in a way you approve of, then you DESERVE to have a gun pulled on you and the criminal is excused. Just like if you wear that dress tonight you are ASKING to get raped and can you really blame the rapist?

I wonder how many civilized countries have issues like this... Oh, right, in civilized countries beat cops don't walk around with guns, have protections when they abuse their power and shit themselves over people daring to record them.

And then we wonder why the civilized world thinks our police culture is a joke...

[josephpalazzo]

Some people just don't get it - there are 300 million guns out there. A cop automatically assumes anyone he will approach most likely will have a gun. Standard procedure: take your fucking hands out your fucking pockets, or else I'll see you at your funeral...