Thoughts on the Existence of the Universe

[stromboli]

[Baruch]

Stromboli ... so I should conclude that Shinto and Ashatru are the true faiths? ;-)

Reasonist ... cognitive dissonance.  So why do people do that?  Binary brain only partly integrated in men, more integrated in women.  You aren't one person in that skull of yours ... probably more than two personalities, in some degree of cooperation/competition.  That is why people have no problem with logical contradiction ... if the two parts are in two different personalities.  They simply agree to disagree, like spouses.  When the contradiction is all int the same personality, then there is an attempt to resolve it.  This is why logic doesn't come natural to people, and didn't develop at all until the ancient Greeks (and then only for a few Greeks at that).

[josephpalazzo]

If that is the case, then the reality is that GOD is LORD of all ---- even you. If there is no God then prayer could have no effect.

No it means these people conducting the experiments are fudging the data. And gullible people like you take the bait line, hook and sinker.

[reasonist]

Stromboli ... so I should conclude that Shinto and Ashatru are the true faiths? ;-)

Reasonist ... cognitive dissonance.  So why do people do that?  Binary brain only partly integrated in men, more integrated in women.  You aren't one person in that skull of yours ... probably more than two personalities, in some degree of cooperation/competition.  That is why people have no problem with logical contradiction ... if the two parts are in two different personalities.  They simply agree to disagree, like spouses.  When the contradiction is all int the same personality, then there is an attempt to resolve it.  This is why logic doesn't come natural to people, and didn't develop at all until the ancient Greeks (and then only for a few Greeks at that).

Probably we all practise cognitive dissonance to a degree. Theists by definition have to practise it. Literalists believe that Adam and Eve rode Dinosaurs 6,000 years ago until Eve took some dietary advice from a talking snake....and then they fire off an e-mail on their tablet, get in their car and go shopping for a new TV. Conspiracy theorists believe the government wants nothing more than confiscate their guns and ammo and then subdue them to eternal serfdom. But they still pay their taxes (almost all), send their kids to school or make that trip to WalMart. Apparently 6% of evolutionary biologists believe in god and creation. Prime example of c.d. Because of our stone age brains we have some serious neurological shortcomings, faith is one of them. Hitchens says that the two primary factors for faith are fear and hope. Fear of death and hope for a rewarding afterlife. I don't know if that's true but it sounds plausible.

[Baruch]

I would frame it ... anxiety and regret.  I think fear and hope put it too strong.

[Blackleaf]

If that is the case, then the reality is that GOD is LORD of all ---- even you. If there is no God then prayer could have no effect.

Speaking as someone who has actually had some experience conducting research in psychology, without having read through the article that this research came from, I am still fairly certain that the reason for the prayer seemingly affecting the non-human "subjects" was because of the placebo affect, or self-fulfilling prophecy. In this case, I'm actually not too sure which it would qualify as. But basically, when people expect a certain result, they'll think they'll see it even when it's not there. Researchers have long used placebo groups when testing new drugs to rule out the placebo affect so they can know their drug actually makes a difference.

In the self-fulfilling prophecy, people who expect a certain result unintentionally act as the cause for that result. The reason for the yeast's apparent benefit from prayer was not because "God is lord of all," but because the people doing the scoring were expecting to see a difference, or because the people who prayed over the yeast treated it differently than they would have if they were not praying over it.

[Sargon The Grape]

Mormons believe that they will be Gods themselves someday and that God was once a mortal man who became GOD. The Bible does not support any of this.

I'm versed in enough Mormon mythology to know that you've never read their material, judging by this statement.

[Blackleaf]

I'm versed in enough Mormon mythology to know that you've never read their material, judging by this statement.

Additionally, we do not take the Bible as a credible source, so the lack of support for the position would be irrelevant anyway. Atheists have no more reason to believe in the Bible than to believe that the Harry Potter books are historically true. Actually, many of us would rather believe that Hogwarts really exists.

[Draconic Aiur]

Additionally, we do not take the Bible as a credible source, so the lack of support for the position would be irrelevant anyway. Atheists have no more reason to believe in the Bible than to believe that the Harry Potter books are historically true. Actually, many of us would rather believe that Hogwarts really exists.

indeed

[josephpalazzo]

Additionally, we do not take the Bible as a credible source, so the lack of support for the position would be irrelevant anyway. Atheists have no more reason to believe in the Bible than to believe that the Harry Potter books are historically true. Actually, many of us would rather believe that Hogwarts really exists.

Harry Potter books are NOT historically true... What is this world coming to...

[Mr.Obvious]

Harry Potter books are NOT historically true... What is this world coming to...

Tsssk

The greatest deceit Voldemort ever pulled was convincing the world he doesn't exist.

[Baruch]

Placebo effect on experimenters?  Just bad experimenters.  If I give a drug to one group of humans, and a placebo to a different group of humans, then you may detect a placebo effect.  Yeast doesn't have a placebo effect.   Bad experimenters are like bad election judges ... it doesn't matter how people vote, but how the votes are counted.  You meant to say ... confirmation bias ;-)

[Mike Cl]

Harry Potter books are NOT historically true... What is this world coming to...

We are coming to Book 8, we hope........................

[doorknob]

I think I just saw that in the book store last night.

[Blackleaf]

Placebo effect on experimenters?  Just bad experimenters.  If I give a drug to one group of humans, and a placebo to a different group of humans, then you may detect a placebo effect.  Yeast doesn't have a placebo effect.   Bad experimenters are like bad election judges ... it doesn't matter how people vote, but how the votes are counted.  You meant to say ... confirmation bias ;-)

It depends on how the experiment was structured, but confirmation bias is another possibility. I suspect, though, that the participants were the people praying over and reporting on their own perceptions. I'd have to see the article to know for sure, though.