Thoughts on the Existence of the Universe

[Sargon The Grape]

God is still Lord of all.

But is he Lord of the Dance?

[Baruch]

But is he Lord of the Dance?

There are similarities between the gnostic Jesus and Shiva.  Jews and Greeks in India, would have been aware of this.  Shiva is the lord of the dance.

[josephpalazzo]

God works in mysterious ways.

I must have heard this a thousand times from theists. It's also called a crackpot theory.

[Hydra009]

Yeah according to the crackpot theory: you don't need hospitals, doctors, nurses, and so on, we just all have to pray and all sick people will get cured. You don't have to have farmers working on farms with tractors, and so on, we just all have to pray and food will grow...

Just imagine if that were actually true.  The world would be so different.

Churches/mosques/temples would be everywhere and hospitals wouldn't even exist.  EMS personnel would transport sick and injured people to the nearest place of worship.  We could even have faith healers on staff at most businesses, living with rich households, in celebrity entourages, embedded with troops, etc.  The clergy would be a vital and respected part of society - and unlike reality, they'd actually earn that status.

And praying for food, now there's an idea!  Big towns spring up overnight in the more desolate parts of the world - in the arctic, desert, etc.  They can meet their basic needs with prayer, so why not live wherever.  There might even be population explosions in some parts of the world.

And this stuff would put a definitive end to a lot of theological debates.  Maybe God would still be an open question, but the miracles themselves would be undeniable.  Everyone would pretty much have to acknowledge that some sort of magic happens.  Boom goes materialism.

Now imagine a world where faith healing doesn't do squat.  Would it be any different from the world we have?  You'd have some stories that claim some miraculous healing, but it'd always be unverifiable and the people who hold these sorts of views would gradually come to be seen as loons.  Sounds pretty strange, doesn't it?

[stromboli]

Having a wife with MS that has been "faith healed" probably 100 times over 18 years, pretty poor success rate. Went to a Prosperity Gospel church for a couple of years, Foursquare Church. Believed that you were sick because you were sinful. didn't go down well with the wife. One Sunday the Pastor's wife doesn't show up because of illness. Sore throat. Makes you wonder what she did to earn that. Hmmm.  I get occasional pain in my backside because of Sciatica. Must be having gay thoughts or something.

Oh yeah, went to the faith healing clinic at the doctor's office for my shoulder pain. Oh wait. They don't have one. Silly me. All those faith healing clinics out there curing people by the zillions. Oh wait. There aren't any. All those faith healers that went to Africa to cure the Ebola patients. Oh wait. They didn't do that. It was them damn doctors and medical science.

Shame on those guys. Making religion look bad by curing shit.

[Baruch]

If one had no food, and no easy way to get more, one might pray about it.

If one was injured or sick, and had no easy way to get better, one might pray about it.

Prayer like that, is for extreme circumstances.  In the West most of us can easily get food or visit a doctor (neither are free though).

The better platitude for most circumstances is ... "G-d helps those who help themselves".

[stromboli]

holy fuck Baruch I actually agree with you. Better go lie down.

[Baruch]

holy fuck Baruch I actually agree with you. Better go lie down.

Great minds think alike ... please lie still while I channel more thoughts to you ... Ommmm

I have sick relatives too ... but I don't pray about it very often, I just get off my ass and help them.

[LittleNipper]

I happen to agree ... but I don't think this is a good thing, since I don't believe in monarchy.  I also disapprove of G-d's actions and inactions.  Of course my G-d isn't your G-d.  It may be arrogant to disapprove of G-d, but I would rather disapprove of the wretchedness of the human condition, than be saved by a cruel deity at the price of my hypocrisy.

But the reality is that Satan and not God is in charge of the earth. Adam was the key giving Satan control. Everyone not saved is in Satan's power and gives him power over what happens on this planet. This will only end when Satan loses the final battle and then he and everyone he possesses will be thrown into the Lake of Fire eternally.

Then and only then will God totally destroy this universe and create a new one. All those who were saved will reside there under Him. You cannot blame GOD for Satan's manipulations. God is waiting until the last person whom He foreknew accepts Christ/Messiah as his personal Savior. Then GOD will react but not before. In the interim, God sill performs miracle, but He must listen to the taunts of Satan the one who always hated man and God's sacrificial love for man.

[LittleNipper]

But the reality is that Satan and not God is in charge of the earth. Adam was the key giving Satan control. Everyone not saved is in Satan's power and gives him power over what happens on this planet. This will only end when Satan loses the final battle and then he and everyone he possesses will be thrown into the Lake of Fire eternally.

Then and only then will God totally destroy this universe and create a new one. All those who were saved will reside there under Him. You cannot blame GOD for Satan's manipulations. God is waiting until the last person whom He foreknew accepts Christ/Messiah as his personal Savior. Then GOD will react but not before. In the interim, God sill performs miracles, but He must listen to the taunts of Satan --- the one who always hated man and God's sacrificial love for man.

[Baruch]

Obvious objection ... but that is two deities ... that is Zoroastrianism, not Judaism, not monotheism.  Please look up Zoroastrianism.  Also this is Gnosticism (of the Earth hating sort) ... which also derives from Zoroastrianism, just as the Revelation of John does.

[LittleNipper]

Obvious objection ... but that is two deities ... that is Zoroastrianism, not Judaism, not monotheism.  Please look up Zoroastrianism.  Also this is Gnosticism (of the Earth hating sort) ... which also derives from Zoroastrianism, just as the Revelation of John does.

Jesus said, "I and my Father are ONE." and also, "Before Abraham was I AM". There is one essence GOD, eternally existing in three individuals: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Each has a specific roll to play in Creation, Salvation and Sanctification ---- however they work as one in total complete perfect unity. This is something we cannot presently fully understand. We are not GOD and we will never be GOD.

The Jews couldn't comprehend Genesis, "Let US make man in OUR image." But after the Messiah came this REVELATION was revealed.

[stromboli]

Satan is in charge of the earth, not god? Epicurus much?



Satan has charge of the world because god let him. So god is ultimately responsible for what satan does. Sin is created from your religion, again by your god. You can quote the holy book all you want but can't prove any of it, you don't respond to or answer most of the posted evidence or links. If you were a Mormon you would say "I can't look at that, it would ruin my testimony". I looked at that. No longer a Mormon. Try actually looking at what we give you and actually refuting it. You can't.

All you do is quote scripture and put a bunch of innocuous statements that prove nothing. Why the fuck are you even here? If you are not trolling then you are just pigheaded if not outright stupid.

[josephpalazzo]

But the reality is that Satan and not God is in charge of the earth. Adam was the key giving Satan control. Everyone not saved is in Satan's power and gives him power over what happens on this planet. This will only end when Satan loses the final battle and then he and everyone he possesses will be thrown into the Lake of Fire eternally.

Then and only then will God totally destroy this universe and create a new one. All those who were saved will reside there under Him. You cannot blame GOD for Satan's manipulations. God is waiting until the last person whom He foreknew accepts Christ/Messiah as his personal Savior. Then GOD will react but not before. In the interim, God sill performs miracle, but He must listen to the taunts of Satan the one who always hated man and God's sacrificial love for man.

More crackpot theory... however this crackpot theory has been around for quite a while. Someone needs to push the refresh button...

[Hydra009]

But the reality is that Satan and not God is in charge of the earth. Adam was the key giving Satan control. Everyone not saved is in Satan's power and gives him power over what happens on this planet. This will only end when Satan loses the final battle and then he and everyone he possesses will be thrown into the Lake of Fire eternally.

Wow.  You're really off in your own little world, aren't ya?  Not judging, I do that sometimes with good literature, too.  But I keep in mind that it's not the same thing as reality.  This whole religion thing looks an awful lot like imagination taken too far and becoming psychosis.