Oregon Shooting

[Shiranu]

It was not a school massacre at Pt Arthur, it was a café and public streets, the offender was given a disability pension for mental illness over a decade before he went on a rampage, the offender never held a firearms licence.

The worst mass murders on the east coast of Australia were done with fire, the Childers backpacker fire and the Quakers hill fire, our second worst mass shooting done with a single shot bolt action .22lr had less deaths than these arson incidents.

Mass shootings since 1996 are Monash University,Hectorville shooting and Lockart shooting.

How bad was gun violence in Australia before our 1996 laws?
Firearm homicides-
1989- 80 victims
1990- 79 victims
1991- 84 victims
1992- 96 victims
1993- 64 victims
1994- 76 victims
1995- 67 victims
1996 -104 victims ( Over 30 of these done at Pt Arthur)
Gun laws imposed because of unlicensed mass murderer
1997-79 victims
2009- 37 victims
2010- 39 victims
2011- 31 victims
2012 -40 victims
www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/australia

In 1995 the year before our firearm laws were imposed we had 67 firearm homicides, in 2012 we had 40 firearm homicides.

New Zealand has had no mass shootings since 1996, NZ allows semi auto centrefire rifles with silencers for recreational hunting, New Zealand abolished long arm registration in 1983.

So, by your own admission, the number of deaths was effectively cut in half... not taking into account the population of Australia has increased by 5 million since the laws went in to place.

Sounds like it worked enough to be justified, if you value human life at all above, "Omg, I want it!".

[The Skeletal Atheist]

I think one of the problems with counting mass shootings that have been stopped is that a mass shooting stopped before it happens is not a mass shooting.

That being said I can't help but find it reactionary when the conversation only seems to happen after one, and when it's mainly geared towards assault rifles.

Very few people are killed in mass shootings compared to overall murders.

Most people killed by gun murders are killed by pistols. Most people killed knew their killer in some way. A good amount were poor. Interestingly enough, more people die by gun suicides than by murders.

To go further on this, since no one seemed to address it:

If you took the assault rifles away, would that really prevent the majority of gun deaths? No. By the statistics, no.

It seems to me that to prevent gun violence in the US, we need to look at why people kill each other  (and themselves) regardless of guns. Poverty, gangs, addiction, mental illness. Take away the guns and these problems will still exist. The violence will continue.

I'm not saying that gun control measures shouldn't be taken, by all means they should be. That being said focusing only on guns will not solve the problem, nor will proliferating guns everywhere.

We need to focus on our societal problems, but guns (and race, religion, and politics in general) are a scapegoat. The problem is not just gun violence, but violence in general.

I'm tired of one side saying we should ban certain types of guns while the other side says we should just all get a gun no questions asked. The elephant in the room is laughing like an ass.

Gun control? Yes, but until we can fix our society and culture the violence will continue. The one on one killings will continue. The suicides will continue. Take away the guns and you may get rid of mass killings, but that only shaves off a small amount of the overall death.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

I don't have a problem with gun ownership nearly as much as nearly totally unregulated gun ownership. In most places in order to cut hair professionally you have to get a license and pass tests. VERY FEW people ever die as a result of an unregulated haircut. To drive a car in every single state you have to have a license and pass a test. And the list goes on and on of professional license requirements.
It's not a secret that guns are made specifically to kill people or to inflict serious bodily injury. They have several moving parts and need to be taken apart and cleaned periodically, but there is very little in ways of requirements for ownership or at the very least the ability to use one effectively without potentially killing innocent bystanders.. I'm ok with ownership. Fine. How about needing a special license to buy and use live ammunition? 

[baronvonrort]

So, by your own admission, the number of deaths was effectively cut in half... not taking into account the population of Australia has increased by 5 million since the laws went in to place.

Sounds like it worked enough to be justified, if you value human life at all above, "Omg, I want it!".

"None of the 4 studies found evidence for an impact of the laws on a pre existing decline in firearm homicides,said Dr McPhedran"
www.sydney.edu.au/news/84.html?newsstoryid=2240 
Firearm homicides were declining decades before our 1996 laws.

The USA has halved their firearm homicides in the last 2 decades by allowing concealed carry in states where it was not allowed, what was your firearm homicide rate in 1989 compared to today?

[Shiranu]

The USA has halved their firearm homicides in the last 2 decades by allowing concealed carry in states where it was not allowed, what was your firearm homicide rate in 1989 compared to today?

Frankly, I am tired of creating tension for no reason, so this will be my last response. I have better things to invest my emotional time on.

A recent study has shown there is zero correlation between concealed carry and crime going either up or down so... yeah. And New York City does not allow CC as far as I know, and yet they cut crime dramatically... as has been pointed out here, it is a fair part cultural issues that need to be addressed. That said, I still don't think it is a privilege that can stand on it's own merits when there are, inarguably, more people who die because of more guns than less.

[baronvonrort]

So what was your firearm homicide rate in 1989 , what is your firearm homicide rate in 2014,has it gone up or down and by how much?

Did you halve your firearm homicides by doing fuck all?

[pr126]

what is this?
Assumptions?
Conspiracy?
Who knows?

[Fidel_Castronaut]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34428946

"There have been more "mass shootings" [defined as 3 or more people killed] than days of the year so far in 2015."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/10/01/2015-274-days-294-mass-shootings-hundreds-dead/

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

'Murica.

[Johan]

So, by your own admission, the number of deaths was effectively cut in half... not taking into account the population of Australia has increased by 5 million since the laws went in to place.

How about showing the total number of violent deaths by any means, not just guns, before and after the ban?

[josephpalazzo]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-34428946

"There have been more "mass shootings" [defined as 3 or more people killed] than days of the year so far in 2015."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/10/01/2015-274-days-294-mass-shootings-hundreds-dead/

http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

'Murica.

Americans when gun control is to be discussed...

[CrucifyCindy]

I mean, I had a Latin Surname (diDio, eventually changed it because of harassment), I have a "foreign" first name, before I was adopted I was raised by a mother who's family was only about 10 years off the boat, grew up around Mexicans (who were culturally more similar to me than the whites), I had best friends whom's parents were illegal and lived in fear of deportation, who lived in shacks of two small rooms and about 6-7 people...I got harassed by the whites for not being "white" like them growing up (and often by the Hispanics for not being brown like them), grew up on the ghetto/bario side of the tracks... all in a town where I got to see rather constant drug related violence and don't think I went more than a year or two without one or more class mates getting shot... and once got to see a black man get pulled down main street with a rope around his ankles while the white guys driving hooted and hollered... a town where I was pulled over multiple times for "looking suspicious" and to do "routine drug searches"...

But yeah, tell me more about my life, please. Tell me more about how "white-y" me couldn't possibly have a clue about the plight of minorities. I understand there is a huge difference between the situation of African Americans and Hispanics, and I also realise that having grown up in two different cultures... I had it comparatively easy, my adopted family didn't struggle as bad and I am grateful for that....

But don't fucking come in here telling me about who I am or where I came from, when you don't know jack shit about me.  And arguing because I have light skin I can't possibly be able to know or even sympathize with minorities? Fuck off with your racist bullshit.

What are you going to tell me next? That you understand the pain of childbirth just because you know a guy who once passed a kidney stone?

[mauricio]

It is very easy for a white person to make statemetns like you have because you just do not have the experiences that people of color have.

What are you going to tell me next? That you understand the pain of childbirth just because you know a guy who once passed a kidney stone?

ahh yess the oppression Olympics I'm so oppressed you can never know what is like to be me, therefore your argument is invalid hur dur!

[mauricio]

BTW you are dismissing his lived experience that's like so.... problematic!

[mauricio]

I will never be able to know how bad slavery was because I'm not a black slave!

oh wait but most black people alive right now neither are

[CrucifyCindy]

BTW you are dismissing his lived experience that's like so.... problematic!

I've heard that "I am not prejudice, I have Asian friends" bull a million times before, and I still don't buy it. By the way Eminem does not fully understand the black experience in America either. So get over it.