Hands Up? Lol We're Gonna Shoot You Anyways!

[The Skeletal Atheist]

STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! STOP RESISTING! HE'S GOT A LINK! *BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM BLAM*

SAN ANTONIO - The unedited version of a video obtained by KSAT 12 News showing the fatal shooting of a man by two Bexar County sheriff deputies will now be made available for online viewing.

The video will include the actual moment the 41-year-old suspect, Gilbert Flores, was shot outside a home in the 24400 block of Walnut Pass. The video also shows what deputies Greg Vasquez and Robert Sanchez did moments after the shooting. Vasquez and Sanchez are on paid administrative leave pending the outcome of the investigation.

On Friday, KSAT 12 News obtained video showing the shooting of Flores by the deputies during a domestic violence call. At that time, we chose not to show the moment he was shot.

The Bexar County Sheriff's Office and District Attorney's office have addressed the incident, and commented on the video, which calls into question whether the shooting was justified. Now that there is an ongoing investigation by both agencies, and following additional discussions within our newsroom, KSAT 12 News has decided to make the entire video available online.

Providing the video on KSAT.com allows for viewers to make their own decision on whether to click on a link to see the video. Other than editing for language, the video is the entirety of what we received from Michael Thomas.

Copyright 2015 by KSAT - All rights reserved.

So, basic review of the video for those of you who don't want to click it:

The video is shot from about a street or so away. It shows a man in the front yard of a suburban house. He's approached by the police, and seems to flee for a moment until finally giving up and putting his hands up. The very fucking moment he puts his hands up (his hands are clearly up, too), the police open fire. *POP POP*  2 shots and the man is down. The video is shot from far away, so there's no blood to be seen on video. The man is dead. Afterwards the cops walk around like there's nothing wrong, then an ambulance shows up and the video ends.

A few things to note:

The cops are on paid leave while the investigation goes forward, so the lucky taxpayers get to pay these murderers while the matter is being investigated. Fun.

The news station that released the video edited out the language. America: where bad words are a no no but a man being murdered is a-ok.

Not in the link I provided, but the police station actually CRITICIZED the news station for releasing the video. Their reasoning seems to be that the release of the video will interfere with their "investigation", as well as death threats being issued against the officers involved. Funny, when some guy holds up a gas station the video is released to the public and that doesn't affect the investigation in the slightest, nor do they worry about vigilantes then. I'm not one to send death threats to people, but I completely understand why someone would want to kill a murderer.

By the way, that's my opinion of these cops: they are murderers. After watching the video there is really no way to convince me that they aren't murderers.

[Youssuf Ramadan]

In the unlikely event of it going to trial, presumably the cops will each squeal, "I feared for my liiiife!" and the whole thing will go away and they'll return to their jobs. 'Murica.

[peacewithoutgod]

There's no such thing as a cop that isn't an armed thug, which is why we should all become armed thugs who enforce the law ourselves. Of course we would need guns for that.  But it's a safe bet that you think you would enforce the law more justly than most cops, don't lie now. In order to enforce it effectively, you need firearms, and in order to use them without harming bystanders or yourself, you should get training. Make that and psychological screening mandatory for those who volunteer to do this in their communities, and you will not have to pay cops, plus you will have many, many more community enforcers available. You also won't have that Blue Line of career pigs protecting pigs from the justice they deserve. When a volunteer breaks the law and harms somebody, the community should compensate the victim or family, and the volunteer can go volunteer for some case where force would not be involved. He won't easily get paid employment when it's his neighbors who have to pay for his fuckup, but since he wasn't paid let him go exempt from criminal prosecution.

NO, NO, NO!!!!! THAT'S LIBERTARIAN INSANITY!!!!!

That it may be, but then so is doing nothing about the status quo other than whine about it. More of police oversight, more investigations, and more of everything else has been tried and worn out for decades, and the more it changes the more it favors the abusive cops. That's when you know that the system needs re-inventing from the ground up - so if not the above change, then the fuck - WHAT???

[Hakurei Reimu]

There's no such thing as a cop that isn't an armed thug, which is why we should all become armed thugs who enforce the law ourselves. Of course we would need guns for that.  But it's a safe bet that you think you would enforce the law more justly than most cops, don't lie now. In order to enforce it effectively, you need firearms, and in order to use them without harming bystanders or yourself, you should get training. Make that and psychological screening mandatory for those who volunteer to do this in their communities, and you will not have to pay cops, plus you will have many, many more community enforcers available. You also won't have that Blue Line of career pigs protecting pigs from the justice they deserve. When a volunteer breaks the law and harms somebody, the community should compensate the victim or family, and the volunteer can go volunteer for some case where force would not be involved. He won't easily get paid employment when it's his neighbors who have to pay for his fuckup, but since he wasn't paid let him go exempt from criminal prosecution.

NO, NO, NO!!!!! THAT'S LIBERTARIAN INSANITY!!!!!

Apparently in lib-land, money is an acceptable substitute for a person's life. Fuck that noise.

That it may be, but then so is doing nothing about the status quo other than whine about it. More of police oversight, more investigations, and more of everything else has been tried and worn out for decades, and the more it changes the more it favors the abusive cops. That's when you know that the system needs re-inventing from the ground up - so if not the above change, then the fuck - WHAT???

You're already seeing "WHAT???" Do you really think that the widespread use of cameras filming police's each and every fuckup isn't going to do something? Do you really think that the community is going to let it go? Do you really think those two officers might be in some fear for their lives in case someone carries through with those death threats? Do you not think that the fact that anyone could be watching to expose their shit that cops aren't eventually going to do everything in their power to be as squeaky clean as they pretend to be, else they're out of a job/in prison from the community outrage alone?

No? Then we have exactly the police force we deserve.

[peacewithoutgod]

You can't have cameras filming the police everywhere. You wouldn't even want them trained on your door, so they won't help you when cops come to your house. Cops are getting recorded on cell phones all the time now, but still very few are getting more than a slap on the wrist, if even that. Most street recording cameras are unfortunately of no better resolution than my crappy phone cam, which can leave big holes regarding certainty of what actually happened. Why do they pretend there's still any value in photographic and video evidence, when anybody can download free image editing software and learn how to doctor it up as anything after a few hours playing with it? You would need expert testimony at every such trial, which the courts aren't likely to procure consistently.

[Youssuf Ramadan]

From what I can gather, police bodycams seem to suffer mysterious malfunctions when shit goes down....

[aitm]

Well, get your ass down to the station and sign up. You want a better cop, go get em tiger! Not me, dealing with the dredges of society every fucking day…no thanks.

[The Skeletal Atheist]

Well, get your ass down to the station and sign up. You want a better cop, go get em tiger! Not me, dealing with the dredges of society every fucking day…no thanks.

Cops have hard jobs, therefore you can't criticize them.

[Munch]

From what I can gather, police bodycams seem to suffer mysterious malfunctions when shit goes down....

oh that, yeah, thats what happens when cops arrest minorities, they spray out an ink that clouds the cameras making it hard to see.

[aitm]

Cops have hard jobs, therefore you can't criticize them.

it is certainly easier to criticize  all of them as being thugs than to, you know, acknowledge that of the over than 1.1 millionish that yeah,  a hundred or two or three are pretty much pieces of shit. I would be happy if we could find that good of an average of any other "group".

[The Skeletal Atheist]

it is certainly easier to criticize  all of them as being thugs than to, you know, acknowledge that of the over than 1.1 millionish that yeah,  a hundred or two or three are pretty much pieces of shit. I would be happy if we could find that good of an average of any other "group".

I never said they were all thugs. I said THOSE cops in THAT case were pieces of shit.

[peacewithoutgod]

it is certainly easier to criticize  all of them as being thugs than to, you know, acknowledge that of the over than 1.1 millionish that yeah,  a hundred or two or three are pretty much pieces of shit. I would be happy if we could find that good of an average of any other "group".

I'm not so worried about the integrity of other groups, so long as they haven't the legal right to carry deadly weapons everywhere they go.

As for the integrity of cops, it really doesn't look to me like it will ever get any better. As a humanist, I'd love so much to believe it's possible, but it really ain't looking like there's enough people who are good enough to have a whole arsenal of weapons at their disposal, be honored as an elite, and privileged member of society at an age where they are physically able to train and do the work which is required of them, and not have it go too much to their heads. Their jobs get dangerous, and they face a lot more danger than there should be because we have a system which creates more criminals per capita than any society in the history of human civilization!  This I suppose isn't any cop's fault, although the excess of jailable "offenses" helps keep them employed and in demand. As for the relative proportion of bad cops, it's shocking to hear about multiple abuses reported daily, with no sign that it will change soon, and with most crimes a reasonable estimate is several times greater than the rate of incidents reported.

Can anybody in Britain or Europe report on differences with law enforcement relations over there? I heard that cops in some parts of Britain still don't carry guns, and ours are uber-militarized with multiple forms of deadly force, armored trucks, specialized assault teams and assault rifles for everyone else, too. I probably would have heard about it if your cops targeted and killed minorities without cause. How does that work where you are?

[aitm]

How does that work where you are?

Well, as I said, if you want to go from three hundred to a thousand to 10 thousand "bad apples" out of a million one, I think thats still pretty good odds.

I'm not so worried about the integrity of other groups,

well, as I implied, I don't think you can get as good as odds from the "other" groups which would encompass everyone but cops.

Perhaps if we had camera's on everybody we could certainly eliminate a lot of problems.

[Hakurei Reimu]

You can't have cameras filming the police everywhere.

We already do.


upload imagem

You wouldn't even want them trained on your door, so they won't help you when cops come to your house. Cops are getting recorded on cell phones all the time now, but still very few are getting more than a slap on the wrist, if even that.

And what happens then? You get protests in the streets. Happened with Larry King. Happened in Fergeson (I have no idea how it's spelt at the moment).

You have to realize that it still may take some time for it to sink in that police can and sometimes do act like thugs.

Most street recording cameras are unfortunately of no better resolution than my crappy phone cam, which can leave big holes regarding certainty of what actually happened. Why do they pretend there's still any value in photographic and video evidence, when anybody can download free image editing software and learn how to doctor it up as anything after a few hours playing with it? You would need expert testimony at every such trial, which the courts aren't likely to procure consistently.

Photo manipulation isn't magic. It takes skill and time to doctor a single image the way you are describing, and it only gets worse with a live video. It is possible to do, but it takes a dedicated studio like PIXAR etc. to do in a timely fashion and make it look right, where "timely" is in time for a film to be finished, which can take years. These images and videos are being posted hours to days after the event, much too soon for that kind of film manipulation to happen.

[peacewithoutgod]

We already do.


upload imagem
And what happens then? You get protests in the streets. Happened with Larry King. Happened in Fergeson (I have no idea how it's spelt at the moment).

You have to realize that it still may take some time for it to sink in that police can and sometimes do act like thugs.

Ok, I see that you accept police brutality as an acceptable inevitability, which you are willing to tolerate in exchange for the feeling that your own ass is more safe. Which means that you are in no way subject to the consequences of such a sacrifice - now isn't that just huge of you! Sorry, but I cannot in good conscience accept that, and I doubt much that millions of Americans who are now angrier than they have been about anything since the assassination of MLK are going to just quiet down and let it go either. At no time soon will that happen!

Photo manipulation isn't magic. It takes skill and time to doctor a single image the way you are describing, and it only gets worse with a live video. It is possible to do, but it takes a dedicated studio like PIXAR etc. to do in a timely fashion and make it look right, where "timely" is in time for a film to be finished, which can take years. These images and videos are being posted hours to days after the event, much too soon for that kind of film manipulation to happen.

Photo manipulation can fix anything, given the time and skills. I've been fairly slow in my experiments embellishing single images, but I know that if I had the average amount of time between incident report and trial date, I could make the typical low-res vid look like anything I want it to (especially if I wasn't a cop but a paid professional or brother of a cop who could go at it full time). Someday the courts are going to become aware of this, that anybody bringing them a complaint based on photos and videos has the technology available to fix them at no cost, and that it isn't really that hard to do. Then what? Then they won't admit evidence from any cams other than their own, and then once again it will be NOT ENOUGH!