My Personal Opinion on the Hijab, Burqa, and Niqab

[Aroura33]

OP did not address any of the comments pointing out it is not the womans CHOICE, but forced upon her.  She may think or say it is her choice, but when your "choice" is wear the Islamic covering your male relatives and/or Imam require you to, or be disowned or worse, that isn't a CHOICE.

Please, continue telling us how it's a woman's choice to be abused and subjugated.....

[PunkPingu]

OP did not address any of the comments pointing out it is not the womans CHOICE, but forced upon her.  She may think or say it is her choice, but when your "choice" is wear the Islamic covering your male relatives and/or Imam require you to, or be disowned or worse, that isn't a CHOICE.

Please, continue telling us how it's a woman's choice to be abused and subjugated.....

I answered that to other people. It is the woman's choice in some cases, and not her choice in others. Look into it, love. I even mentioned my own Muslim friends, who were given the option by their families.

[PunkPingu]

Because it is.

social justice warrior
A pejorative term for an individual who repeatedly and vehemently engages in arguments on social justice on the Internet, often in a shallow or not well-thought-out way, for the purpose of raising their own personal reputation. A social justice warrior, or SJW, does not necessarily strongly believe all that they say, or even care about the groups they are fighting on behalf of. They typically repeat points from whoever is the most popular blogger or commenter of the moment, hoping that they will "get SJ points" and become popular in return. They are very sure to adopt stances that are "correct" in their social circle.

The SJW's favorite activity of all is to dogpile. Their favorite websites to frequent are Livejournal and Tumblr. They do not have relevant favorite real-world places, because SJWs are primarily civil rights activists only online.

You're a fucking idiot. I have provided you with links to back up my apparent lack of facts. I have explained why I have an attitude present and why I used a different coloured font. All you have done is sat here trolling me. You have contributed nothing of value to this thread. All you feel the need to do is share stupid memes and complain that I'm some sort of social justice warrior, which by the way, is also not the case. Come back and start problems again later on when you learn how to interact. If you have nothing of use to say, don't fucking say it. You're wasting my time by sitting here acting like you're all high and mighty because we have different views, without actually adding in your opinion or explaining why you think mine is incorrect. I'm done engaging with you until YOU have something intelligent to say. You're the troll, sweetie, and I would love nothing more than to make you go away, but this site doesn't offer a feature for such things.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

I have no idea what you said since I turned on the Ignore feature long ago, but I can only imagine it is the same misinformed, condescending drivel you've been spouting throughout this thread.

[Solitary]

If it is a woman's choice, explain why they would make the choice to wear them? Solitary

[Aroura33]

I answered that to other people. It is the woman's choice in some cases, and not her choice in others. Look into it, love. I even mentioned my own Muslim friends, who were given the option by their families.

And when a person is indoctrinated to believe the only good women are the modest ones who cover their hair?  The women were GIVEN the choice by their families....I see.

I know not every Muslim man forces these things on his women, but the fact that he CAN (and it has become the new social norm as well) kind of nullifies the choice argument.

So, why did Muslim women in the 60's and early mostly chose NOT to wear any of that stuff, but now most do?  Ithink the answer to that also puts paid to the "choice" argument.

(Sorry, I'm not a free-will proponent in the first place, and I simple cannot see how anyone could look at the coercion of any major religion, then announce that it's adherents made a choice to practice one of it's dogmas)

[PunkPingu]

If it is a woman's choice, explain why they would make the choice to wear them? Solitary

As my friend Minal said, she wanted to respect her religion, so she made the choice. That being said, she is also a very vocal feminist.

[PunkPingu]

And when a person is indoctrinated to believe the only good women are the modest ones who cover their hair?  The women were GIVEN the choice by their families....I see.

I know not every Muslim man forces these things on his women, but the fact that he CAN (and it has become the new social norm as well) kind of nullifies the choice argument.

So, why did Muslim women in the 60's and early mostly chose NOT to wear any of that stuff, but now most do?  Ithink the answer to that also puts paid to the "choice" argument.

(Sorry, I'm not a free-will proponent in the first place, and I simple cannot see how anyone could look at the coercion of any major religion, then announce that it's adherents made a choice to practice one of it's dogmas)

Believe me, I don't understand it much either, nor do I agree with it. I just don't feel like banning such things is fair, legally, as it goes against our charter here in Canada. I didn't mean to be sassy with you, I'm just annoyed at certain other assholes who have done nothing but cause problems rather than actually discuss. I apologize.
So long as it is a decision made by the individual, it should be allowed, but for those who don't have the option, like I said, should have the ability to escape. We should be providing a support system. A lot of the changes, I think, came following changes in governments, but not all are radical in their beliefs and that should be recognized. Their government may be corrupt and forcing sharia law, but that doesn't mean all agree with it.
My entire post is simply an opinion. It is meant to generate discussion, and I was hoping to learn more from others who disagree, in the event that it sways how I feel. That's why I'm here. To discuss and discover. Having people jump on me and go straight into attack mode...not so beneficial.

[Solitary]

As my friend Minal said, she wanted to respect her religion, so she made the choice. That being said, she is also a very vocal feminist.

Thanks for the reply! So it is their religion that says they should dress that way, just like nuns do, correct? Solitary

[Aroura33]

Believe me, I don't understand it much either, nor do I agree with it. I just don't feel like banning such things is fair, legally, as it goes against our charter here in Canada. I didn't mean to be sassy with you, I'm just annoyed at certain other assholes who have done nothing but cause problems rather than actually discuss. I apologize.
So long as it is a decision made by the individual, it should be allowed, but for those who don't have the option, like I said, should have the ability to escape. We should be providing a support system. A lot of the changes, I think, came following changes in governments, but not all are radical in their beliefs and that should be recognized. Their government may be corrupt and forcing sharia law, but that doesn't mean all agree with it.
My entire post is simply an opinion. It is meant to generate discussion, and I was hoping to learn more from others who disagree, in the event that it sways how I feel. That's why I'm here. To discuss and discover. Having people jump on me and go straight into attack mode...not so beneficial.

I do see what you are trying to say (and don't worry, I'm not offended and I see what happened.)
I'm doing something right now, but promise to come back and reply shortly. :)

[Aroura33]

Ok,  so as far as legality is concerned, as has already been pointed out, government has the perfect right to put limits on religious practices if those practices are dangerous or possibly harmful to other people, or infringe on the rights of others.
Covering your face means it is harder, if not impossible, to identify a person. Shop and business owners and employees have the right to feel safe from their customers.  People HAVE put on Burkas and robbed places in the guise of being an Islamic female, so their concern is warrented. 

People do NOT have the right to harass or acted violently against someone just because they dress Islamic (I know it happens, and I too find it sad), but business owners absolutely have the right to refuse service to someone who has their face covered.

As far as choice goes, yet again, I say they only have the illusion of choice.  You said

As my friend Minal said, she wanted to respect her religion, so she made the choice. That being said, she is also a very vocal feminist.

So what was her actual choice, to NOT respect her religion??  That's....not a choice.  If Dogma says do X Y or Z or else be shunned at best, killed at worst, then "respect"ing that Dogma is NOT a choice.  She may feel she made that choice, but really, did she have other options??
How many practicing Islamic women do you know that made the choice to wear western clothing and not wear one of those hair/head/body covering garments?  There are Muslims where I live, too, and the women all wear the garb, while their husbands all dress western.

When I was a girl, I was given the "choice" of going through the first communion ritual.  The other option was to sit with the toddlers while all the big kids and grown ups went up to get the honor of receiving communion.  Yes, I was given a choice, as were all the kids, but not really. 

Again, she may feel as if she is choosing to honor her religion, but really she is just conforming to the society she was born into, with her other option being to leave the people and practices she is familiar with.  People do it, but often pay a heavy price.

[Hydra009]

Again, she may feel as if she is choosing to honor her religion, but really she is just conforming to the society she was born into, with her other option being to leave the people and practices she is familiar with.  People do it, but often pay a heavy price.

And she is conforming to a religious norm in which, to quote Sarkozy, women are "prisoners behind a screen, cut off from all social life, deprived of all identity".  And this from a supposed feminist, to boot!

[SGOS]

The Canadian law was passed as a safety precaution against terrorism.  I doubt that law makers sat around dreaming up ways to discriminate against Muslim women just to insult the cultural heritage of Islam.  But a major part of the cultural heritage of Islam is to get insulted over any real or imagined slight to Islam, so warriors for social justice need to reframe the debate into an issue of discrimination, rather than safety.

The original poster tries to do this by negating the safety issue and simply declaring it "not a safety issue."  In this way she can create a flap over a straw man, and do her "I'm standing up for the oppressed because I'm butt hurt over this other thing that isn't the real issue so I can do my 'harp on discrimination' " routine.  But the Canadian government didn't pass that law to create equality for Muslim women.  Nor was it done to offend Muslim women.  Some Muslims are bound to get offended, because Muslims have a whole religion built around taking umbrage, but that's too bad.

[doorknob]

Why are we even still talking about this?

Muslim women have other options then the burqa. The burqa is very clearly a safety issue. When driving or many other social activities in the free world it is a hazard. It has nothing to do with religious freedom. Muslim women are free to observe this so called "religious" garment in countries where it is acceptable. But in countries where it's not acceptable they will have to adapt as they do have other religious garments that they can wear. In any other country than the free world this wouldn't even be questioned. Muslims would be forced to adapt culturally and no complaint would be tolerated.

They come to our land gain a little freedom and think our culture should change to suit them. Well its the other way around. You came here now adapt.

[GSOgymrat]

I wonder if Canada allows people to wear surgical type masks in public?