My Personal Opinion on the Hijab, Burqa, and Niqab

[Deidre32]

From exploring Islam, when praying salat, a head covering of some type needs to be worn by women. I’m wondering if it began as a reverent expression during prayer, but became a tool to control women in middle eastern culture. The burka to me just blurs women out of the picture, as if they don’t exist…they are just ‘shadows’ of men. They have no identity. I saw a photo recently of a group of women wearing burkas and men walking in front of them, and it just looked very disturbing, as if the women were just all the same…like property to be following ‘their men.’ Muslim women who wear the burka can justify it any way they wish, but regardless of my secular views, religion shouldn’t require you to be blotted out.

[Aroura33]

I agree with one thing, Muslims should not be subject to violence just because they are Muslim. 

However, people have already made great points that covering your face is a safety issue, and that a woman may SAY she is choosing to wear it, but I also THOUGHT I was chosing to be Catholic when I was part of that great big cult.  How can Muslim woman "chose" what they wear when they can be (and have been) disowned, banished, or even killed for not wearing it?  IT's forced on them, so they have understandably tried to make it their own, but it's horrible.

As has also been pointed out, just one generation ago woman in Muslim countries dressed much like western woman did.  It was only the recent wave of crazy religious zealots in their countries that have caused them to go backwards 100 years.

It could happen to us too!  It wasn't too long ago that Christian woman had to cover their hair in public, as well.  I feel like current Muslims are a warning to the rest of the world that social progress can absolutely be REVERSED by a single religious extremist in a position of power.


These are woman In Iraq in the 70's, outside a college they were attending. 
Yeah....I don't see a Hijab, Burqa, or Niqab, plus look, women with BOOKS, going to SCHOOL!! 

So no, it's not a woman's "choice".

[Solitary]

"When in Rome do as the Romans do." No one should be harmed for the way they dress, but covering ones face is definitely a safety issue for those covered or to those that aren't. I don't think our secular society should bend over for any religion because they think it infringes on their God given rights.  It is simply impossible to make one believe, or not to believe in any belief they don't want to as all of history has shown, because belief is, and should be, a "PRIVATE" matter and not forced on anyone. This whole idea that religion is a Sacred Cow is primitive. How many people are dying now and throughout history because private beliefs have became public and political on either side of the fence? Why does everyone have to be a team player if they don't want to? It's good in sports and bands, but even there it brings out the worst in people. I just read where two transgender and androgynous human beings have killed themselves from being harassed by bullies, disowned by their families and friends, just for being different. This is BULL SHIT!  :fU: Solitary

[PunkPingu]

Obnoxious text color: check.
Condescending attitude: check.
Poor grasp of facts: check.

Yep, we've got a Social Justice Warrior.

Maybe what you don't understand is that I specifically said that it's a personal opinion. If that's such a difficult concept, then you shouldn't be bothering me with your nonsense either. This is my first attempt at being open on this forum and people like you do not bother me. You must be so grown up if you can't even give me a decent reasoning. Please, continue to be a dick instead of looking at someone else's view in a new light. I'm an atheist but that doesn't mean that I'm superior to religious people if they want to practice a certain way. I have Muslim friends and I'm exhausted of seeing people blatantly put Muslims down and refer to them as terrorists for who or what they choose to worship, therefore, from the view of someone who is tired of watching their Muslim friends be discriminated against solely on how they dress, there may in fact be an opinion that differs from your own. Shocker. Different life experiences tend to equate to different opinions. I don't see a problem with religious garb because I'm not scared of other human beings based on their clothes or religion.
As for the colour, looking at black font for no apparent reason irritates my eyes, so I made it a colour that is softer for me to look at. Deal with it. My so-called "attitude" is simply because I'm fed up with watching some of the people I love and admire being put down. Having an "attitude" about something that hits close to home is pretty understandable, also counting in the fact that this is a PERSONAL OPINION. And apparently, I don't have any facts present? Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms stating that we have the freedom of religion and the freedom of expression? That's not a fact? Sweetie, it is. My leader being a fear-monger just to scare us into jumping into an illegal war against ISIS? That's exactly what he's doing, unless you're a Canadian who happens to be pro-illegal wars, in which case, I have no reason to bother with you. His actions go against international law, before you try to tell me I'm just biased. As well, my darling friends here in the western world were asked by their parents if they wanted to wear a headscarf. All of them have made that choice, not been forced. Understand that too. I also said that for the women who aren't given an option, that we should be putting in place support for them to escape the oppression. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that all women who wear them made a choice. I'm not even going to tell you that I like the niqab or burqa. I don't agree with a religion stating that women must cover up, however, I support the right to choose. Islam actually states that covering of faces is more mandatory than people realize. It doesn't mean that a Muslim woman has to absolutely without a doubt follow every single text. We don't expect all Christians to stone unmarried sexually active women. No one follows their holy book to a tee.
References to Islamic quotes about covering:
http://islamqa.info/en/11774
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/007-veils.htm

[PunkPingu]

From exploring Islam, when praying salat, a head covering of some type needs to be worn by women. I’m wondering if it began as a reverent expression during prayer, but became a tool to control women in middle eastern culture. The burka to me just blurs women out of the picture, as if they don’t exist…they are just ‘shadows’ of men. They have no identity. I saw a photo recently of a group of women wearing burkas and men walking in front of them, and it just looked very disturbing, as if the women were just all the same…like property to be following ‘their men.’ Muslim women who wear the burka can justify it any way they wish, but regardless of my secular views, religion shouldn’t require you to be blotted out.

Exactly. I also agree entirely with your comments on the burqa. I don't like the burqa or niqab but if it is a choice made by the woman herself, who am I to tell her she can't?

[Hijiri Byakuren]

Continuing to demonstrate the aforementioned behaviors: check.
Refusing to address people's points: check.

Not just a social justice warrior, but an obvious troll.

[SGOS]

Exactly. I also agree entirely with your comments on the burqa. I don't like the burqa or niqab but if it is a choice made by the woman herself, who am I to tell her she can't?

It's probably not your place.  But if you're working for Homeland Security, and your job is to keep terrorists from entering the US House of Congress, you will have to lay down the law to some unidentifiable person wearing enough cloth to conceal a bazooka.  Especially, when your religion preaches killing infidels, and you are wearing expressions of your religious culture of violence.

[PunkPingu]

How do you suggest the police verify the identity of someone in case of an emergency? Do we suspend medical attention on a injured or sick women until we can put her in a private closed room with women only? And frankly I most certainly do not want people driving a car around wearing clothing that restricts their view in such a manner, what do you suggest for that?

You are suggesting that society as a whole should accommodate a person beliefs to the point where we have to spend millions to have little rooms all over the country to assist in establishing identity? In such other cases of emergencies, consider if we continue to have terrorists attacks, what is to prevent men from hiding beneath the cover of a women's clothing?

As an atheist I agree that people should have the right to their own nonsensical beliefs until education can wipe it out, however, also as an atheist and seeing that Islam is as much a horror of religion as any other, I am for anything that helps strip away its authorities and one of those is to help liberate those who suffer the most, the women, even, if you suggest, they want to remain tight to their religion. I would have this reaction to any religion where one sex was forced to do something that the other sex is not forced to do.

But I can be convinced with some better points.

In the case of an emergency, that is where complying would have to take place. We can't treat everyone specially the entire time, but we can make things more manageable for those with opposing views. Most women who wear the burqa or niqab don't even drive. I've actually never seen a woman who wears either driving a vehicle. When it comes to driving, in a niqab, one can still see. A burqa is a different story, and believe me, I don't like head coverings any more than you do. We very sadly accommodate many other religions, so I don't see how respecting one more changes anything. As far as terrorism goes, it isn't as large a problem for us westerners, so again, I don't see why respecting the coverings are such a large problem.
I don't disagree with you at all, honestly. This is merely a personal opinion based on having many Muslim friends facing the discrimination since ISIS became prevalent.

[PunkPingu]

It's probably not your place.  But if you're working for Homeland Security, and your job is to keep terrorists from entering the US House of Congress, you will have to lay down the law to some unidentifiable person wearing enough cloth to conceal a bazooka.  Especially, when your religion preaches killing infidels, and you are wearing expressions of your religious culture of violence.

Pretty sure concealing a bazooka is much more difficult than that and for those who enter the White House, don't they have to pass through metal detectors and be searched? I find that Americans are far too scared of terrorists when many are homegrown.

[PunkPingu]

Continuing to demonstrate the aforementioned behaviors: check.
Refusing to address people's points: check.

Not just a social justice warrior, but an obvious troll.

You would know if I were trolling. But again, look at you not even attempting to argue your point. You're the troll here.
You may also notice that I even cited two Islamic pages, explained the Charter a tad, and we all know that what my leader is doing is illegal. It's been talked about for the last few weeks. I even explained why I used another colour, which by the way was not present in the response, and also an explanation for an "attitude". Grow up and learn how to interact on a forum.
Charter: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/const/page-15.html
Harper: http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/pm-seeks-to-expand-canadian-airstrikes-into-syria-1.2294461

[aitm]

actually the US is not as open to religious rights even for Christians. There are many laws prohibiting religious freedoms from the Santeria and their sacrifices to the American Indians use of Peyote to christians arguing for polygamy, lots of stuff that is prohibited from many religions. Sometimes society has to bend and if everyone bends a little society works better. But nobody gets off free.

[Atheon]

Yep, we've got a Social Justice Warrior.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[Hijiri Byakuren]

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Because it is.

social justice warrior
A pejorative term for an individual who repeatedly and vehemently engages in arguments on social justice on the Internet, often in a shallow or not well-thought-out way, for the purpose of raising their own personal reputation. A social justice warrior, or SJW, does not necessarily strongly believe all that they say, or even care about the groups they are fighting on behalf of. They typically repeat points from whoever is the most popular blogger or commenter of the moment, hoping that they will "get SJ points" and become popular in return. They are very sure to adopt stances that are "correct" in their social circle.

The SJW's favorite activity of all is to dogpile. Their favorite websites to frequent are Livejournal and Tumblr. They do not have relevant favorite real-world places, because SJWs are primarily civil rights activists only online.

[Mike Cl]

"Religious Freedom" is turning into an empty word much the same way 'terrorism" has.  It means something different for all who use it and all who hear it.  Does religious freedom allow a pharmacy to refuse to fill a prescription from a doctor because it goes against the pharmacy's morals?  Does religious freedom allow a person to refuse service to someone because they are gay, a mud person, of another religion, or no religion at all?  Does religious freedom allow a parent to withhold medical treatment from a child?  Or themselves?     Where is the line to be drawn so that their freedom does not become the dictate of how I must live my life?  Religion and it's practice should be restricted to where it belongs--in your house and your 'place' of worship. 

[Youssuf Ramadan]

"Religious Freedom" is turning into an empty word much the same way 'terrorism" has.  It means something different for all who use it and all who hear it.  Does religious freedom allow a pharmacy to refuse to fill a prescription from a doctor because it goes against the pharmacy's morals?  Does religious freedom allow a person to refuse service to someone because they are gay, a mud person, of another religion, or no religion at all?  Does religious freedom allow a parent to withhold medical treatment from a child?  Or themselves?     Where is the line to be drawn so that their freedom does not become the dictate of how I must live my life?  Religion and it's practice should be restricted to where it belongs--in your house and your 'place' of worship. 

Well said, squire!