"I Still Believe Homosexuality is a choice..."

Started by Aletheia, December 04, 2014, 03:54:27 AM

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Baruch

Quote from: OldFaithful on January 29, 2017, 05:49:29 PM
No is not a choice. Good God provide free will in many aspect. But sexual is inherit together with life actions/education/raised by parents or figures of authorities.

Regardless of our orientation, we all make choices to act or not act on our orientation.  So we are responsible for the most important part of it.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Shiranu

#286
Quote from: Baruch on January 29, 2017, 07:46:14 PM
Regardless of our orientation, we all make choices to act or not act on our orientation.  So we are responsible for the most important part of it.

And what is more important? To destroy yourself with guilt over something outside your control so that sky daddy isn't upset? To sacrifice your own happiness not for love of your god, but for fear? To harm yourself is more important than to at the very least seek forgiveness for your transgressions?

Those who sacrifice from their own lives in the name of God, right or wrong, out of their own choice or love deserve the utmost respect. But to have your own life sacrificed, to sacrifice the life of your child or friend, because you are afraid? That the all loving creator will smite you because you are disgusting in his eyes? There is nothing divine, nothing beautiful about this...

No, if your god sees you as disgusting because of how you, made in his own image looks... then no amount of sacrifice can save you. It is not "you" but him that is the flawed, vile creature.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Munch

Baruch was simply saying that whatever our sexuality, the way we grow up effects our outlook, on many different variables. A gay man growing up in the middle east will be raised to believe being gay is something disgusting and wrong in name of his faith, and so keeps it hidden from the world, suffering from those withdrawal from his nature. A gay woman raised in a conservative household strikes out against her parents wanting her to be 'normal', and she only finds solace away from it, developing a negative option of what family means.
A trans man or woman grows up wanting to be different, but only finds it in drag shows, and so develops a character around their own identity as a stage performer.

The point he is making, is that we do not just come out of a box when we are born, we have the makeup in our genes, but how we develop depends on our environment. I once went on a date with a guy who worked as a monk in a church, he was very withdrawn and unable to really express any feelings outside of his own indoctrination, and while it was sad to me, he said it made it happy. If that was true or not is another thing entirely, but clearly it was how he was raised.
'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' - George Carlin

Shiranu

QuoteBaruch was simply saying that whatever our sexuality, the way we grow up effects our outlook, on many different variables.

QuoteRegardless of our orientation, we all make choices to act or not act on our orientation. So we are responsible for the most important part of it.

You are extrapolating a shitload out of that statement, and I cannot for the life of me figure out why. He simply said nothing about growing up, the effects it has, or our outlooks. All he said was that the most important part, action, is what we are responsible for, to which I disagree.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Munch

We are responsible for our own actions through, since it comes down to what we end up making of ourselves. No one chooses their orientation, but they choose to accept what's in their nature or deny it.
'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' - George Carlin

Shiranu

Quote from: Munch on January 29, 2017, 10:04:41 PM
We are responsible for our own actions through, since it comes down to what we end up making of ourselves. No one chooses their orientation, but they choose to accept what's in their nature or deny it.

Which is not at all contrary to what I said, since it's dealing with two completely different train of thoughts... nor is it consistent to what he actually said. If that's what you are saying, that is perfectly fine and I agree with it, but it has nothing to do with what Bauruch said.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Michael M Perez

There you have a strong point. I agree with you

Baruch

Quote from: Shiranu on January 29, 2017, 08:10:33 PM
And what is more important? To destroy yourself with guilt over something outside your control so that sky daddy isn't upset? To sacrifice your own happiness not for love of your god, but for fear? To harm yourself is more important than to at the very least seek forgiveness for your transgressions?

Those who sacrifice from their own lives in the name of God, right or wrong, out of their own choice or love deserve the utmost respect. But to have your own life sacrificed, to sacrifice the life of your child or friend, because you are afraid? That the all loving creator will smite you because you are disgusting in his eyes? There is nothing divine, nothing beautiful about this...

No, if your god sees you as disgusting because of how you, made in his own image looks... then no amount of sacrifice can save you. It is not "you" but him that is the flawed, vile creature.

Yes, repression can have negative effects.  Sometimes we need to suppress, sometimes not.  And in many places, it is too dangerous to come out of the closet.  Putting self liberation above prudence, let alone safety ... is exhibitionism.  Of course, if one is saying, that people by determinism or whatever, are never responsible for what they do ... then you have a point, that I can't agree with.  But we are not responsible for our feelings ... those are emotions, not cogitations.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

MooHamHead

I always asks the choicers how old they were when they chose.  I mean you must have been thinking ....damn I like that guy's ass and I like that girl's ass, which too choose, which too chose......then I call them a faggot or a lesbo laugh at them and walk off.

Sent from my SM-T520 using Tapatalk

Baruch

My first kiss with a girl was in 2nd grade ... she initiated.  I still love Judy, Judy, Judy ...
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

I don't like myself for this, but I suspect that homosexuality (when not a deliberate erotic choice) is some neurological malfunction in fetal development. 

That doesn't mean it is a choice, that doesn't mean it can be "cured", it is what someone really wants.  Its just so...  anti-evolutionary!  And I have trouble getting my mind around that.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

TrueStory

Quote from: Cavebear on January 31, 2017, 02:42:15 PM
I don't like myself for this, but I suspect that homosexuality (when not a deliberate erotic choice) is some neurological malfunction in fetal development. 

That doesn't mean it is a choice, that doesn't mean it can be "cured", it is what someone really wants.  Its just so...  anti-evolutionary!  And I have trouble getting my mind around that.
It's not anti-evolutionary at all.   When resources are scarce or competition is great, helping out your own parents when you already have siblings still helps your overall fitness genetically as you share so many genes with close family that get passed on.  It happens in multiple bird species and apparently in humans past as well. 
Please don't take anything I say seriously.

Cavebear

Quote from: TrueStory on January 31, 2017, 02:47:41 PM
It's not anti-evolutionary at all.   When resources are scarce or competition is great, helping out your own parents when you already have siblings still helps your overall fitness genetically as you share so many genes with close family that get passed on.  It happens in multiple bird species and apparently in humans past as well.

Many animals help out the breeding pair without becoming homosexual.  I watch nature shows too.  That's a weak argument. (in my view).
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

TrueStory

#298
Quote from: Cavebear on January 31, 2017, 03:01:01 PM
Many animals help out the breeding pair without becoming homosexual.  I watch nature shows too.  That's a weak argument. (in my view).
Well maybe you should try getting your information outside of a nature show.
Nothing you've said even addresses the topic.  No reason to list off things we're not talking about.
Please don't take anything I say seriously.

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on January 31, 2017, 02:42:15 PM
I don't like myself for this, but I suspect that homosexuality (when not a deliberate erotic choice) is some neurological malfunction in fetal development. 

That doesn't mean it is a choice, that doesn't mean it can be "cured", it is what someone really wants.  Its just so...  anti-evolutionary!  And I have trouble getting my mind around that.

Evolution means I get big muscles, brain you, take your girl.  Evolution is great, if you are Schwartzenegger.  Also that beefcake ... so so gay!
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.