Perennial Philosophy

[Solitary]

I'm still trying to figure out what the point of this topic is. The ego disappears in these extreme experiences because of the extreme energy going through the hindbrain, sensory-motor cortex and limbic brain. Especially in extreme fight-flight chemistry the prefrontal lobes are disengaged in order for the more instinctive parts of the brain to deal with the danger. During such a spiritual emergency however the sense danger is internally generated. Often the autonomic shock is many times greater than that which we could ever experience in the normal course of a human life. This is what causes PTSD that I have.

Just as a virgin only has a limited grasp of what it is to be human prior to having sex, so to those who have not experienced the ecstatic inner-conjunction or a Dark Night also have a limited perception of the height and depth of reality. These extreme events in consciousness make the ego more sober, respectful and humble because of this reorientation of what it is to be Human. This adjustment is largely biochemical. Nothing mystical here!

There is both vast expulsion of stored tension-energy and extensive reconstruction of the brains hardware that is brought about by these events. And it is this chemical, energetic and experiential reformation, which leads to what we know as Ego Death...whereas really it should be known as an expansion of the tight boundaries of the Ego to encompass a larger felt-sense of humanization. As an artist I have had this kind of experience with music and graphic art from an altered consciousness, where time stands still. I have started painting in the morning and came back the next morning with no time passing. So what!

What is Ego Death? Ego death represents the neurodetoxification of fossilized repression, removing the friction and futile cycling of the nervous system, allowing a higher pattern to form. . From our subjective point of view our self is composed of the parent=superego, adult=ego, child=id in ALL STATES. That is waking, dreaming and deep sleep, plus altered states. To this triad there is both the dark-bad-Thanatos (death) aspect, and the light-good-Eros. (erotic, orgasm) Coupled with the Unconscious, conscious and subconscious (physical body). And all these factors interact to create the self.

Once we are able to stabilize our consciousness beyond knee jerk reaction to environment, then we are able to cultivate energetic/consciousness conditions in which vast regions of our brain can fall into sync. I have had electroencephalograms flat line by meditation. A neurologist from California was called in to see how this could be done because no one in Phoenix had seen it before accept when someone was dead. It isn't really flat lined but real slow brain waves. The neurologists told them he had only seen it done in India by gurus. It took me three years of practice everyday with help from an expert to do this. So how is this in anyway cosmic consciousness and not a subjective experience? Woo! Woo! Solitary

[Sargon The Grape]

I'm still trying to figure out what the point of this topic is.

Perineum philosophy. Can't you read titles? :P

[Icarus]

I meant attached to the end of the chemical name. The skeletal structure of DMT is obviously a near relative to psilocybin. They're both tryptamine-based neurotransmitters, and they're both capable of producing this state of "ego death" which I've been at great pains to attempt to describe.

I was afraid you'd say that, this means we have to go back to the basics. It's time for another morning lesson in organic chemistry! You were using the full IUPAC name for DMT because it's longer and makes you sound more intelligent for using it right? The problem with that is, because you don't know anything about organic chemistry, you didn't know that IUPAC names convey structural information and aren't read from front to back like an English word or sentence.

Here's an example

Tryptamine:


N,N-Dimethyltryptamine (adding two methyl groups onto the nitrogen, notice which part of the nomenclature changed):


See how that works? Now stop spouting woo and go learn some real science so you don't look like a tool that's gone full retard.

[Hakurei Reimu]

I meant attached to the end of the chemical name. The skeletal structure of DMT is obviously a near relative to psilocybin. They're both tryptamine-based neurotransmitters, and they're both capable of producing this state of "ego death" which I've been at great pains to attempt to describe.

Yeah, you're an idiot just trying to cover your ignorance. Your entire spiel reeks of it. Like your stoopid "illegal drug" canard preventing research on DMT. You need no special permission for investigating any endogenous substance, and even experimenting with non-endogenous DMT is just a matter of logistics... logistics that may not be worth it in the face of other research that may be done with the same money.

You even display ignorance of your own subject matter. You claim Perennial Philosophy is just about the founders of religion having these types of experiences and used them to establish their religions. Not according to the wiki page, which if nothing else gives you the basic gist of this Perennial Philosophy thing: it's not just about psychodelics sparking the creation of religion; it's about religions sharing in some sort of universal truth on which they are founded on. Sorry, but the track record of the claims of religion that have been tested reveals nothing more than blind guessing. Perennial Philosophy is woo because its basic claim has been definitively struck down, yet you idiots still think it's serious business.

As far as I can discern, there are no misses. Any misses you think there is, is merely a misunderstanding or misconstrue on your part. In if you really want to get into this aspect of it, I don't mind. I'll try my best to explain the overlaps in theoretical physics and eastern wisdom, of course, from a layman's point-of-view meaning someone who's read Kaku's, Brian Greene's, Gödel's, Victor Stenger's material, etc.

Your "discernment" has been suspect for a long time now, and is of no value to me. The track record of religion reveals nothing more than blind guessing. The religious are not tapping into a universal truth as claimed by Perennial Philosophy, a tradition you don't seem to know the basics of.

Victor Stenger does not advocate that any religion has ever had a handle on the truth as we know it, nor does Kaku or Greene. All parallels they draw are only used as tools for illustration, because they are speaking to a lay audiance and need some sort of device more graspable than the mathematics of QM to describe it. The only author on your list that had any sort of woo-ish beliefs is Kurt Gödel, but none of his woo-ish beliefs has been substantiated, only his brilliant mathematics.

The "Tao of Physics" isn't a woo book. It's all based in reality.

I've read some of it. It's a woo book. It added nothing to my understanding of how matter behaves.

If you really want to challenge this notion, why not try and confirm the "ego death" phenomenon for yourself. I truly doubt you'd be able to come back and try and argue against it once you've had it for yourself. Would you consider taking ayahuasca? Would you consider taking psychedelic mushrooms? I'd wager you wouldn't even give it a single thought.

Oh, are we advocating me breaking the law now? Fuck you. Even if I were to take you up on your offer? What would come out of it? An experience. A subjective, unmeasurable experience. I know enough about phsycology to know that the brain is capable of extreme wackiness; I've been on the brunt end of some of it myself. My experience would prove nothing.

[Solitary]

Perineum philosophy. Can't you read titles? :P

And how does reading titles tell me what point he is trying to make about it? Solitary

[Kafei]

I'm still trying to figure out what the point of this topic is. The ego disappears in these extreme experiences because of the extreme energy going through the hindbrain, sensory-motor cortex and limbic brain. Especially in extreme fight-flight chemistry the prefrontal lobes are disengaged in order for the more instinctive parts of the brain to deal with the danger. During such a spiritual emergency however the sense danger is internally generated. Often the autonomic shock is many times greater than that which we could ever experience in the normal course of a human life. This is what causes PTSD that I have.

Just as a virgin only has a limited grasp of what it is to be human prior to having sex, so to those who have not experienced the ecstatic inner-conjunction or a Dark Night also have a limited perception of the height and depth of reality. These extreme events in consciousness make the ego more sober, respectful and humble because of this reorientation of what it is to be Human. This adjustment is largely biochemical. Nothing mystical here!

There is both vast expulsion of stored tension-energy and extensive reconstruction of the brains hardware that is brought about by these events. And it is this chemical, energetic and experiential reformation, which leads to what we know as Ego Death...whereas really it should be known as an expansion of the tight boundaries of the Ego to encompass a larger felt-sense of humanization. As an artist I have had this kind of experience with music and graphic art from an altered consciousness, where time stands still. I have started painting in the morning and came back the next morning with no time passing. So what!

What is Ego Death? Ego death represents the neurodetoxification of fossilized repression, removing the friction and futile cycling of the nervous system, allowing a higher pattern to form. . From our subjective point of view our self is composed of the parent=superego, adult=ego, child=id in ALL STATES. That is waking, dreaming and deep sleep, plus altered states. To this triad there is both the dark-bad-Thanatos (death) aspect, and the light-good-Eros. (erotic, orgasm) Coupled with the Unconscious, conscious and subconscious (physical body). And all these factors interact to create the self.

Once we are able to stabilize our consciousness beyond knee jerk reaction to environment, then we are able to cultivate energetic/consciousness conditions in which vast regions of our brain can fall into sync. I have had electroencephalograms flat line by meditation. A neurologist from California was called in to see how this could be done because no one in Phoenix had seen it before accept when someone was dead. It isn't really flat lined but real slow brain waves. The neurologists told them he had only seen it done in India by gurus. It took me three years of practice everyday with help from an expert to do this. So how is this in anyway cosmic consciousness and not a subjective experience? Woo! Woo! Solitary

It is a subjective experience. I never denied this. It may be ultimately biological, I never denied this either. What I'm saying that the altered state exist, and it was this very altered state in early man that laid the very basis for the soul. After these early religious figures had such experiences, each one of them went on to become a founder of a religion. No woo-woo involved. Where I think you may be misinterpreting what I'm saying is that when I say "mystical experience," I'm referring to a state of mind, not something "supernatural." When you see the word "mystical," you may be led to believe that I'm talking about something "divine" or "supernatural." I say this because the line you typed, "Nothing mystical about this." This is merely an old term that described or rather referred to this altered state of consciousness. Like I said, more contemporary terms are "Cosmic consciousness" or "ego death."

I was afraid you'd say that, this means we have to go back to the basics. It's time for another morning lesson in organic chemistry! You were using the full IUPAC name for DMT because it's longer and makes you sound more intelligent for using it right? The problem with that is, because you don't know anything about organic chemistry, you didn't know that IUPAC names convey structural information and aren't read from front to back like an English word or sentence.

Here's an example

Tryptamine: founders of the major religions had such


N,N-Dimethyltryptamine (adding two methyl groups onto the nitrogen, notice which part of the nomenclature changed):


See how that works? Now stop spouting woo and go learn some real science so you don't look like a tool that's gone full retard.

I'm not sure what you're arguing here. The reason I use the full abbreviation (N,N-DMT) is to not confuse people with other forms of DMT, as in 5-MeO-DMT or Desoxymethyltestosterone which is an anabolic steroid that is, in fact, abbreviated DMT. While these two (N,N-DMT and 5-MeO-DMT) are also tryptamine-based, the effects of each one is vastly different from one another. I wouldn't type it to "sound intelligent." That'd be stupid. I said both psilocybin and N,N-DMT were tryptamine-based psychedelics, then you showed me the skeletal formula for a tryptamine and N,N-DMT. I'm not sure how this counters what I've said.

Yeah, you're an idiot just trying to cover your ignorance. Your entire spiel reeks of it. Like your stoopid "illegal drug" canard preventing research on DMT. You need no special permission for investigating any endogenous substance, and even experimenting with non-endogenous DMT is just a matter of logistics... logistics that may not be worth it in the face of other research that may be done with the same money.

Whether you need no special permission or not, the fact of the matter remains that a clinical trial has yet to be done to confirm or expel these speculations.

You even display ignorance of your own subject matter. You claim Perennial Philosophy is just about the founders of religion having these types of experiences and used them to establish their religions. Not according to the wiki page, which if nothing else gives you the basic gist of this Perennial Philosophy thing: it's not just about psychodelics sparking the creation of religion; it's about religions sharing in some sort of universal truth on which they are founded on. Sorry, but the track record of the claims of religion that have been tested reveals nothing more than blind guessing. Perennial Philosophy is woo because its basic claim has been definitively struck down, yet you idiots still think it's serious business.

I'm speaking of the Perennial Philosophy of the sort Aldous Huxley proposes, although what we may need is a new paradigm altogether. While people have been having these type of experiences since perhaps the dawn of man, if Terence is right, perhaps all the way back to our ancestral hominids. Nevertheless, today for neuroscience, this is an endeavor that hasn't been properly explored, it is a terra incognita. So, what we may need is a new language or neologisms that better reflect what precisely is going on.

Your "discernment" has been suspect for a long time now, and is of no value to me. The track record of religion reveals nothing more than blind guessing. The religious are not tapping into a universal truth as claimed by Perennial Philosophy, a tradition you don't seem to know the basics of.

To the contrary. You're the one that lacks the basis of this experience, because you've yet to have the experience yourself.

Victor Stenger does not advocate that any religion has ever had a handle on the truth as we know it, nor does Kaku or Greene. All parallels they draw are only used as tools for illustration, because they are speaking to a lay audiance and need some sort of device more graspable than the mathematics of QM to describe it. The only author on your list that had any sort of woo-ish beliefs is Kurt Gödel, but none of his woo-ish beliefs has been substantiated, only his brilliant mathematics.

There are striking parallels between eastern concepts and modern theoretical physics. I mean, we could go in the direction of describing this, but that would be off topic.

I've read some of it. It's a woo book. It added nothing to my understanding of how matter behaves.

The book is based on physics, of course it'll describe how matter behaves. -_-

Oh, are we advocating me breaking the law now? Fuck you. Even if I were to take you up on your offer? What would come out of it? An experience. A subjective, unmeasurable experience. I know enough about phsycology to know that the brain is capable of extreme wackiness; I've been on the brunt end of some of it myself. My experience would prove nothing.

To the contrary. You don't know enough about "phsycology," because this phenomenon is still a mystery to it. You underestimate this experience. While it's true that it's a subjective experience, the experience itself is not necessarily out of the bounds of scientific study as, for instance, the studies done by the John Hopkins University which scientifically proved the potential of psilocybin to launch people into this mystical experience and of course the work of Dr. Rick Strassman. When Strassman's volunteers were interviewed after their experience of DMT taken intravenously, lo and behold, they all experienced similar phenomena from the describing of the visual iridescent fractal patterns to the overwhelming feeling of transcendence. A lot of people used the terms "fourth dimensional" or "beyond dimensionality" to describe their experience.

You don't have to break the law. Ayahuasca is handed out to tourists freely in Peru, and it's perfectly legal to use it there. There's also the Santo Daime Chruches in Brazil that have made their way into the U.S. and Europe. So, if you're a member of this church, it's perfectly legal for you to partake in the use of ayahuasca. I mean, the fact this birthright is illegal is an outrage, but as Bill Hicks said, it may go hand in hand of how we're being suppressed. I truly believe if you actually take up this endeavor, you'd have a life-changing experience. You'd experience something that you'll probably spend the rest of your days pondering, but you don't have to take my word for it. You may not be curious now, but I believe that's only because you've never had this experience. I mean, that's just obvious because you grossly underestimate it. And isn't it strange that a naturally occurring neurotransmitter is also a schedule I illegal drug? The drugs speak for themselves, and don't need me to advocate them.

Bill Hicks - Our Illusion

[Solitary]

It is a subjective experience. I never denied this. It may be ultimately biological, I never denied this either. What I'm saying that there altered state exist, and it was this very altered state in early man that laid the very basis for the soul. After these early religious figures had such experiences, each one of them went on to become a founder of a religion. No woo-woo involved. Where I think you may be misinterpreting what I'm saying is that when I say "mystical experience," I'm referring to a state of mind, not something "supernatural." When you see the word "mystical," you may be led to believe that I'm talking about something "divine" or "supernatural." I say this because the line you typed, "Nothing mystical about this." This is merely an old term that described or rather referred to this altered state of consciousness. Like I said, more contemporary terms are "Cosmic consciousness" or "ego death."

I'm not sure what you're arguing here. I said both psilocybin and DMT were tryptamine-based psychedelics, then you showed me the skeletal formula for a tryptamine and N,N-DMT. I'm not sure how this counters what I've said.
Whether you need no special permission or not the fact of the matter remains that a clinical trial has yet to be done to confirm or expel these speculations.
I'm speaking of the Perennial Philosophy of the sort Aldous Huxley proposes, although what we may need is a new paradigm altogether. While people have been having these type of experiences since perhaps the dawn of man, if Terence is right, perhaps all the way back to our ancestral hominids. Nevertheless, today for neuroscience, this is an endeavor that hasn't been properly explored, it is a terra incognita. So, what we may need is a new language or neologisms that better reflect what precisely is going on.
To the contrary. You're the one that lacks the basis of this experience, because you've yet to have the experience yourself.

There are striking parallels between eastern concepts and modern theoretical physics. I mean, we could go in the direction and describing this, but that would be off topic.
The book is based on physics, of course it'll describe how matter behaves. -_-
To the contrary. You don't know enough about "phsycology," because this phenomenon is still a mystery to it. You underestimate this experience. You don't have to break the law. Ayahuasca is handed out to tourist freely in Peru. I mean, the fact this birthright is illegal is an outrage, but as Bill Hicks said, it may go hand in hand of how we're being suppressed.

Bill Hicks - Our Illusion

Do you always change the common definition of words to fit your delusions?  Mystical 1: spiritual 2: relating to direct communion with God. You have already won the reward for being the most disingenuous person on the forum, you don't have to keep trying so hard to prove it, we all know what point your trying to make, even if you deny it. This has been fun, but like all delusional people you are blinded by your subjective experiences to see what's right in front of you in objective reality. Have a nice day! Woo! Woo! You have made my day with your nonsense, thanks! Solitary

[Kafei]

Do you always change the common definition of words to fit your delusions?  Mystical 1: spiritual 2: relating to direct communion with God. You have already won the reward for being the most disingenuous person on the forum, you don't have to keep trying so hard to prove it, we all know what point your trying to make, even if you deny it. This has been fun, but like all delusional people you are blinded by your subjective experiences to see what's right in front of you in objective reality. Have a nice day! Woo! Woo! You have made my day with your nonsense, thanks! Solitary

William James actually popularized the use of the term "mystical experience," because he also had a very deep interest in this matter. There's several ways of defining it, you mentioned "direct communion with God," or some people feel real contact with a higher-order realities of which humans are not ordinarily aware.

Skeptics or scientists may hold that religious experience is an evolved feature of the human brain amenable to normal scientific study. I adhere to this. That's why I mentioned neurotheology. Neurotheology aims to do precisely this. So, it's obvious these states of mind exist. Throughout history they've had various names. I'm not saying this is a "proof of God," that's why I tried to make it clear in the very first paragraph that I'm not proselytizing an "LSD God." What I'm saying in the mind of early man, they interpreted these experiences as "God." This colossal altered state were interpreted this way in history. Yes, we realize today that they're altered states, but in early man, they interpreted the state of mind as a  "communion or merging with God." The experience itself is of God-like proportions. I'm not sure if you've ever had a psychedelic experience, but I wouldn't underestimate this subjective experience, especially if you have never done it before.

You seem more hell bent on calling me delusional and announce this as "woo-woo" when if you had just but taken a moment to truly grasp what I'm attempting to convey, then you'd realize there's absolutely no woo involved. I suppose this is a common close-minded reaction to this stuff. Amber Lyon and Joe Rogan talk about this in a podcast she appeared in with him.

[Sal1981]

As a person on psych meds, I can tell you: You have to accept that drugs change your perception, not reality itself, whichever size that may be.

It's all fine and dandy until you start to extrapolate either.

[Hakurei Reimu]

Whether you need no special permission or not, the fact of the matter remains that a clinical trial has yet to be done to confirm or expel these speculations.

Well, that's just too fucking bad for you.

I'm speaking of the Perennial Philosophy of the sort Aldous Huxley proposes, although what we may need is a new paradigm altogether. While people have been having these type of experiences since perhaps the dawn of man, if Terence is right, perhaps all the way back to our ancestral hominids. Nevertheless, today for neuroscience, this is an endeavor that hasn't been properly explored, it is a terra incognita. So, what we may need is a new language or neologisms that better reflect what precisely is going on.

So what you are claiming as Perennial Philosophy isn't actually Perennial Philosophy as we understand it from consulting outside sources of what the hell it is. Nice job confusing the issue, bro. Or is this more goalpost moving of yours, now that you have been caught with your pants down?

To the contrary. You're the one that lacks the basis of this experience, because you've yet to have the experience yourself.

Just like a Jesus freak says I have to experience God in order to believe him. Go fuck yourself with a cactus.

There are striking parallels between eastern concepts and modern theoretical physics.

Not when you actually examine them closely, they aren't.

The book is based on physics, of course it'll describe how matter behaves. -_-

Do you actually know your physics? Do you have a degree in physics at all? I don't think you do.

To the contrary. You don't know enough about "phsycology," because this phenomenon is still a mystery to it. You underestimate this experience. While it's true that it's a subjective experience, the experience itself is not necessarily out of the bounds of scientific study as, for instance, the studies done by the John Hopkins University which scientifically proved the potential of psilocybin to launch people into this mystical experience and of course the work of Dr. Rick Strassman. When Strassman's volunteers were interviewed after their experience of DMT taken intravenously, lo and behold, they all experienced similar phenomena from the describing of the visual iridescent fractal patterns to the overwhelming feeling of transcendence. A lot of people used the terms "fourth dimensional" or "beyond dimensionality" to describe their experience.

In other words, a typical hallucinatory experience, as expected for DMT. However, all it shows is that the "mystical experience" is thoroughly grounded in natural causes â€" the introduction of a drug that causes a change in how neurons fire.

You don't have to break the law. Ayahuasca is handed out to tourists freely in Peru, and it's perfectly legal to use it there. There's also the Santo Daime Chruches in Brazil that have made their way into the U.S. and Europe. So, if you're a member of this church, it's perfectly legal for you to partake in the use of ayahuasca.

So let me get this straight: I have to either join a church of some kind, with the potential of them getting to me when I'm in a potentially mentally vunerable state, or I have to spend thousands of dollars to go to another country? Yeah, this is realistic. Go sit on a long, thin pole.

[Icarus]

I'm not sure what you're arguing here. The reason I use the full abbreviation (N,N-DMT) is to not confuse people with other forms of DMT, as in 5-MeO-DMT or Desoxymethyltestosterone which is an anabolic steroid that is, in fact, abbreviated DMT. While these two (N,N-DMT and 5-MeO-DMT) are also tryptamine-based, the effects of each one is vastly different from one another. I wouldn't type it to "sound intelligent." That'd be stupid. I said both psilocybin and N,N-DMT were tryptamine-based psychedelics, then you showed me the skeletal formula for a tryptamine and N,N-DMT. I'm not sure how this counters what I've said.

Clap, clap. You completely ignored the errors you made and tried to change the original argument, not even close to your best strawman yet.

I'm arguing that you have a lot to learn before you can be taken seriously. Nothing you have provided has changed that view in the slightest.

[Kafei]

Well, that's just too fucking bad for you.

That's why all the speculatory reasoning. It's because we don't have physical evidence yet, however the evidence we've found so farm seems to be indicative of Strassman's speculation. Of course, we won't know for sure until the trials are run. I'd say it's a matter of time now until someone actually proves that this is so.

So what you are claiming as Perennial Philosophy isn't actually Perennial Philosophy as we understand it from consulting outside sources of what the hell it is. Nice job confusing the issue, bro. Or is this more goalpost moving of yours, now that you have been caught with your pants down?

I'm not confusing the issue. Just as neurotheology is attempting to define all this religious phenomena in scientific terms, likewise a form of Perennial Philosophy that is sharpened by neuroscience and polished in terms of scientific explanations is what we'd ultimately want to aim for. It would be the ideal Perennial Philosophy, and of course, it would simply be reformed to better reflect reality, but without necessarily changing the essence of what it is, you see. So, this is not moving the goalpoast, the goalposts stay exactly where they are. However, this concept is not a new concept. It made its first appearance in the literature back in the 15th century. While there are different variations, each concept sort of holds that the essence of all religion is basically one and the same truth. The sort of angle with Perennial Philosophy that I'm coming from is the sort that William James and Aldous Huxley spoke about, that this "insight" or "truth" is based in "religious experience."

Just like a Jesus freak says I have to experience God in order to believe him. Go fuck yourself with a cactus.

No, this is not like that, and I describe why that is in the OP. The difference is that the Jesus freak is equating this "experience of God" to something subtle while retaining an ordinary state of consciousness. So, to the Jesus freak who exclaims, "I feel God in my heart," a line that would have Matt Dillahunty retort, "So, maybe you should go see a doctor." That, of course, is NOT what I'm talking about. I'm talking about a colossal altered state of consciousness by which if you were to undergo you'd realize without an iota of doubt that what you were experiencing is orders of magnitude different from your ordinary state of consciousness, not something subtle like the "Jesus freak." In other words, you don't want to metaphysicize heartburn.

Not when you actually examine them closely, they aren't.

I don't take it you've examined this closely. With further examination, you'd find that they are.

Do you actually know your physics? Do you have a degree in physics at all? I don't think you do.

I'd wager that you don't have a degree in physics, either. I'm sure most people that frequent this forum are layman.

In other words, a typical hallucinatory experience, as expected for DMT. However, all it shows is that the "mystical experience" is thoroughly grounded in natural causes â€" the introduction of a drug that causes a change in how neurons fire.

I don't think anyone enters this state of mind with an expectation of what's going to occur. DMT does not provide ‘an’ experience which you analyze. Nothing so tidy goes on. The syntactical machinery of description undergoes some kind of hyperdimensional inflation, instantly. And then you cannot tell yourself what it is that you understand. In other words, what DMT does can’t be downloaded into as low dimensional a language as English. One toke [of DMT] away is this absolutely reality-dissolving, catagory-reconstructing, mind-boggling possibility. And I feel like this is a truth that has to be told. Sure, they may be grounded in natural causes, but the entire point is that this is the underlying unity of all these religions.

So let me get this straight: I have to either join a church of some kind, with the potential of them getting to me when I'm in a potentially mentally vunerable state, or I have to spend thousands of dollars to go to another country? Yeah, this is realistic. Go sit on a long, thin pole.

*mod hat on*
Promoting illegal activities is, well, against the law and could have serious consequences on the forum. Don't do it again. And don't even try to complain about this edit.


I'm not promoting illegal activities. What people decide to do with their bodies is up to them, but yes, unfortunately, Hakurei, if you want to take up this endeavor in a legal fashion, you're going to have to travel where these things are legal, otherwise of course, the fastest route is an illegal one, and apparently that can't be discussed here or you'll be censored. Now, I thought atheist forums were supposed to be a latitudinarian area for discussion. That's obviously not the case.

Clap, clap. You completely ignored the errors you made and tried to change the original argument, not even close to your best strawman yet.

I'm arguing that you have a lot to learn before you can be taken seriously. Nothing you have provided has changed that view in the slightest.

There is absolutely no strawman. I'd maintain that you misunderstand the argument.

[Sargon The Grape]

Typical bullshit fallback: When they continually disagree, they "just don't understand." Couldn't possibly be anything else, like perineum philosophy being full of more holes than cottage cheese.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk. Titty sprinkles.

[Kafei]

Typical bullshit fallback: When they continually disagree, they "just don't understand." Couldn't possibly be anything else, like perineum philosophy being full of more holes than cottage cheese.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk. Titty sprinkles.

There's a woman in the audience of the Alan Watts talk that I link at the very bottom of the 2nd post of the OP that accuses Watts of pulling a strawman argument, and I believe that's what Icarus has done here. But it was because the woman misunderstood Watts in the very same fashion Icarus misunderstands Perennial Philosophy. So, it's not a bullshit fallback, and there aren't any holes.

[Kafei]

*sigh*

The problem with the atheistic mind-set is that it's dualistic. Atheists seem to have this notion that anyone who doesn't hold an atheistic point-of-view is somehow in the opposition, and therefore there is no discussion, there is only debate. It becomes a game, and so you get images like this when in fact no one truly had a retort for Perennial Philosophy. So, the atheist resorts to this "I win, you lose" dualistic mentality. Did you make that Gif yourself or did you find it on the net?