Morality

[benno]

Good for you. While you're young, go and live a bit. Be youthful.

[Shiranu]

Might I suggest reading about; Martin Luther...

As an ex-Lutheran... dude was a major bigot. Thankfully alot of the Lutheran church is far more tolerant and liberal than he was.

[Hydra009]

I think you make a good point and church does explain that, the concept of total depravity of man

Total depravity - the belief every person born into the world is enslaved to the service of sin.  That's quite an explanation.

and I just ask that my beliefs be tolerated, and not called immoral

What you are describing is not tolerance, but censorship.

I consider myself and my beliefs at least decent and it's upsetting when a stranger tries to say otherwise

You, perhaps.  Your beliefs are much less laudable.  Even the relatively progressive strains of Christianity still demand faith and obedience, and still try to live their lives (and incidentally, the lives of others) around a society long since gone which arguably wasn't even very good compared even to its contemporaries and a morality centered around notions of "sin" utterly detached from the well-being of humans.

[Shiranu]

...and I just ask that my beliefs be tolerated, and not called immoral

If they are immoral, they are immoral. Just because someone believes something does not mean it is free of criticism. The Nazis had some good beliefs as well, that doesn't mean you can't say, "Nazism was immoral.".

[Sargon The Grape]

Martin Luther? You mean the guy who removed 7 books from the Old Testament that you've probably never read or heard of unless you're Catholic or curious?

And folks wonder why I laugh when they say the Bible is the "indisputable word of God." Indisputable my ass. XD

[Contemporary Protestant]

I only mentioned Martin Luther because Benno asked what my username meant, and then proceeded to tell me I am incorrect, so I told him to look up a few people before telling me what protestant means

I disagree with Luther and Calvin (especially Calvin), I really like transcendentalism, but I am also open to other things, and think I have a lot of room to grow both as a person and as a theist

[Bibliofagus]

I think you make a good point and church does explain that, the concept of total depravity of man, and I just ask that my beliefs be tolerated, and not called immoral

I consider myself and my beliefs at least decent and it's upsetting when a stranger tries to say otherwise

How is the 'concept of total depravity of man' not immoral exactly?

[Contemporary Protestant]

I don't understand the question, total depravity refers to separation from God because sin cannot exist in the presence of God, I have free will and with it I sinned, thus total depravity

[Mr.Obvious]

So God is not omnipresent in your book?

[Contemporary Protestant]

The Holy Spirit is omnipresent but Jesus and The Father are not, they exist in heaven, sin can't exist in heaven

[Hydra009]

The Holy Spirit is omnipresent but Jesus and The Father are not, they exist in heaven, sin can't exist in heaven

So the Holy Spirit is God and the Holy Spirit is omnipresent, Jesus is God, but Jesus is not omnipresent?

[pioteir]

...
Atheism doesn't have a good track record either, Stalin, pol pot, Mao Zedong, hiro hito (maybe)

I don't think using the actions of people to judge their ideals isn't fair
...

I recommend you watch some debates of Christopher Hitchens on the so-called "atheistic regimes". you might learn a thing or two.

Second: you say we shouldn't judge the ideals of theists based on their actions but you do the same with supposedly atheistic regimes. Talk about some good ol' christian double standard.

ps. I'm amazed how nobody called CP on his "atheistic regimes" for so long. Don't tell me You all agree he has a point there.

I don't understand the question, total depravity refers to separation from God because sin cannot exist in the presence of God, I have free will and with it I sinned, thus total depravity

The only people saying you sinned are the theists. It's just a tool for crowd control. They make you feel ashamed of your natural instincts and make you do all sorts of stuff and be obedient so they can forgive you. It's a scam so obvious it hurts.

[Contemporary Protestant]

I never said that those regimes killed in the name of atheism, I wasn't making the atheistic regimes point, I was saying that using regimes isn't a good point in response to nazis

[pioteir]

You sure as hell implied that atheism is the thing that drove them. Shiranu and Bibliofagus called you up on that but, as I see it, they went too soft on you.

Hirohito was considered god's incarnate, Stalin and Mao are the "dear leader" types. In all 3 cases people worshipped them not unlike theists worship jesus. They had miracles and heresy hunts in Soviet union (don't know about China and Japan). That doesn't sound like atheism to me.

There's a thread about religious diversity. Check that out. Czech republic, Estonia, Latvia, Hong Kong, Uruguay and South Korea are all atheist 40% and above. I don't see them launching pogroms, wiping out neighbouring tribes etc.
http://atheistforums.com/index.php?topic=4502.msg1011173#msg1011173

There's a famous challenge put forth by Hitch about religions contribution to morality: Name a moral action made or moral statement uttered by a believer because of their faith that couldn't be made/uttered by an atheist.

If you manage to do that I might consider... well, I'm not sure what I'll do. But do try :)

[Contemporary Protestant]

I'm going to try and answer your question, I don't have an answer now but I will try and find one


Btw South Korea has very high suicide rates, not a great example of the way things should be