Morality

[Contemporary Protestant]

Uruguay is only 14% atheist

[pioteir]

You can check what's the cause of the suicides while you're trying to find an answer to the challenge.

Uruguay - 12th row from the bottom, 40.7% Unaffiliated. Maybe you looked up Ukraine :)

[Contemporary Protestant]

It's not atheism, it's despair, I was just pointing out that South Korea isn't a good example of an ideal society

Hong Kong looks friggin awesome though

[Drummer Guy]

There's a famous challenge put forth by Hitch about religions contribution to morality: Name a moral action made or moral statement uttered by a believer because of their faith that couldn't be made/uttered by an atheist.

Here's a couple of examples:

"Homosexuality is wrong"

"Sex before marriage is wrong"

I'm not condoning those statements.  In fact, I don't think those are moral statements, but in order to answer the question, it would have to be something that a naturalist like myself didn't agree with, because if I agreed with the answer, then it wouldn't be an answer to the challenge.

[pioteir]

It's not atheism, it's despair, I was just pointing out that South Korea isn't a good example of an ideal society

Hong Kong looks friggin awesome though

I get what you're saying about despair in SK. Today's Japan is a tough one to live in. Social pressures are friggin colossal plus they have the whole Fukushima thing going on. Scary as shit.

But guess what. While many nations saw Fukushima as an opportunity to shut down some nuke plants given the risks and other factors Poland (where I live in, for now) makes a bold plan to build a nuklear plant! I mean we don't have earthquakes here but by the time we build it, it'll be friggin obsolete! Fortunately I will be far away by that time. Sorry for the OT.

Here's a couple of examples:

"Homosexuality is wrong"

"Sex before marriage is wrong"

I'm not condoning those statements.  In fact, I don't think those are moral statements, but in order to answer the question, it would have to be something that a naturalist like myself didn't agree with, because if I agreed with the answer, then it wouldn't be an answer to the challenge.

Hitch, as well as I meant the positive contribution from religion. Sorry for not specifying that in the challenge. But as a matter of fact Hich had a follow-up: Contrary to the first name a wicked or immoral act or statement done/said BECAUSE of religious beliefs. In this You're spot-on.
That just shows that religion has nothing good to contribute to human morality (unless CP finds a good answer to the first part).

[Contemporary Protestant]

There is some validity to abstinence, I intend to find better info but planned parent hood gives good basics

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/health-topics/birth-control/abstinence-4215.htm

If I'm wrong then correct me, but I'm pretty sure abstinence was a belief that originated in Abrahamic religion

[Shiranu]

If I'm wrong then correct me, but I'm pretty sure abstinence was a belief that originated in Abrahamic religion

Nope, the Hindu ascetics practiced it as well, and I am sure there have always, throughout human history, been people who said that sex was wrong or abstained from it.

Against abstinence, the main argument against it, from the link...

People may find it difficult to abstain for long periods of time and may end their period of abstinence without being prepared to protect themselves against pregnancy or infection.

Abstinence runs contrary to human biological nature, and thus is rarely practiced outside of the most self-controlled people. And teaching abstinence simply doesn't work, it has to be a choice of the individual.

[Bibliofagus]

I don't understand the question, total depravity refers to separation from God because sin cannot exist in the presence of God, I have free will and with it I sinned, thus total depravity

I'll rephrase: How exactly is the concept that -->> every human being that ever lived, no matter what he or she did or does <<-- is "depraved" a moral concept?

[Contemporary Protestant]

Do atheists tithe? (Giving up 10% of income)

Can an atheist "turn the other cheek"

I'm not saying all Christians follow the tenets described, just throwing them out there



Thanks, I'm going to look into Hindu ascetics


Define moral concept

[Shiranu]

Do atheists tithe? (Giving up 10% of income)

Okay...

-Atheists don't (for the most part) believe in the validity of the church.
-Atheists generally don't attend churches.
-If atheists don't believe in the validity of the church, nor attend the church, then it is highly unlikely they give up 10% of their income to the church.

Now, I am guessing you meant this as a moral argument... that tithing is something good. However if you are just tithing 10% to the church... what church are you tithing to? Are you tithing to one that helps the poor, feeds the needy, or are you tithing to one that is lobbying against gay rights, promoting guilt and shame amongst the population, using fear to scare people into believing in it?

Donating to a charity, or buying food for the hungry, is better than donating to a church. And I am positive there are atheists that give far more than 10% of their income in charity just as there are MANY Christians who don't tithe 10% of their income.

Can an atheist "turn the other cheek"

Nope, we cant. If you wrong us, we will hunt you down and slaughter your kin. That is just how we roll.

[Bibliofagus]

Define moral concept

You know what I mean. Hell. It's your thread discussing morality dude.

[pioteir]

Do atheists tithe? (Giving up 10% of income)

Can an atheist "turn the other cheek"

I'm not saying all Christians follow the tenets described, just throwing them out there



Thanks, I'm going to look into Hindu ascetics


Define moral concept

I don't consider tithing (especially to any church) as moral. If you mean charity many atheists do that, help the poor, feed the hungry and all that. Religious also tend to prosletyze alongside the feeding and helping so i would say it's immoral (preying on the weak I mean).

Please expand on turning the other cheek. Is it like non-violence thing or loving your enemy or sth?

I definitely consider abstinence (sexual repression and frustration it induces) as one of the main reasons of many mental and sociological problems. So no, it's not moral to condemn (or as it is written in the bible, stone to death) people (mostly women - again scripture) for normal sexual acts and desires.


btw Shiranu I love the slaughter of kin bit :) That's just how we roll hahaha :evillaugh:

[Contemporary Protestant]

I give money directly to charities in lou of the church, and well loving your enemies is a Christian virtue, so yeah, showing kindness to those who hate you

Define moral concept, I don't know what you mean

[The Skeletal Atheist]

Giving any amount of money to a charity is better than tithing to a church.

[Bibliofagus]

Define moral concept, I don't know what you mean

Whatever you meant when you started this thread about morality dude.
It's your thread discussing --> morality <--