Hi, I'm a cultural Christian

[scroyle]

You are mistaken. I made it very clear that I'm now living in another country. It's a non-Christian country where Christians are a minority. 10% is right. I said that almost 50% claimed to be free-thinkers in the last census but someone just explained to me. It's not that simple. These free-thinkers aren't exactly atheists. Apparently, it's common in this country for people to call themselves free-thinkers but they aren't atheists at all. They are superstitious people generally.

[josephpalazzo]

I don't know what problem atheists have with school prayers. My school has prayers and church too. It's run by the State church. The atheists in my country have no problem with this. Richard Dawkins himself leads in grace and he has to do that as a Fellow of his College. He has no problem with it and I don't know why American atheists find prayers so incredibly burdensome. In my country, our Head of State is the Head of my Church. She's the Defender of the Faith. The Head of State is crowned in church by a priest. Every marriage and birth and death of the royal family is celebrated in church and is a state event. But nobody has a problem with that because it's our culture. Can't you see that? Religion is all about culture. The supernatural can go but the culture remains.

But you can't compare your country with the US, since the US has had a different culture from its inception, one based on a constitution that specifically demands that all public institutions must be secular, and since the school IS a public institution then it should be in all facets a secular one. What I'm asking you is that before you blame atheist actions in the US, look at the American culture, not yours. Within that context (cultural and historical) atheist actions in the US makes sense.

[scroyle]

But you can't compare your country with the US, since the US has had a different culture from its inception, one based on a constitution that specifically demands that all public institutions must be secular, and since the school IS a public institution then it should be in all facets a secular one. What I'm asking you is that before you blame atheist actions in the US, look at the American culture, not yours. Within that context (cultural and historical) atheist actions in the US makes sense.

But weren't early Americans even more religious? Weren't they called pilgrims? I thought they left England because we weren't religious enough for them. I would have thought the US was founded on the pilgrim's staff. Every US President has to go for prayers in a church (I think it's Anglican probably for historical reasons) before the inauguration ceremony. Every President has to have a State Chaplain. I saw Obama's ceremony. It was pretty religious except that they don't do the coronation in the abbey. But it was still very religious. Rick Warren prayed. And every State address has to end with "God bless America". And of course the US dollar says "In God we trust".  Whereas our money even has Darwin's portrait. LOL. Honestly, the US is far more religious than England.

[La Dolce Vita]

You are mistaken. I made it very clear that I'm now living in another country. It's a non-Christian country where Christians are a minority. 10% is right. I said that almost 50% claimed to be free-thinkers in the last census but someone just explained to me. It's not that simple. These free-thinkers aren't exactly atheists. Apparently, it's common in this country for people to call themselves free-thinkers but they aren't atheists at all. They are superstitious people generally.

Thank you for dodging your immorality. Please address my points on mandatory prayer in institutions such as schools.

Also: Tons of atheists are superstitious. There is nothing about not believing in a god that stops people from being superstitious, or even religious, as evidenced by your case - though most religious atheists tends to belong to atheist religions.

[Poison Tree]

Most of the money given to churches go to the upkeep of the old buildings. It's frightfully expensive to maintain these old buildings. But I was talking about giving to the social arm of the church. Not the church directly which will swallow up your money to repair the old church building. But you can contribute to the church repair if you like to preserve a national heritage. Nothing wrong with that.

So why not uncouple the social arm of the church from the church and become a secular charity? Or, better yet, close down the old expensive churches--or all the churches--and use all of that money for charity? Why do we need churches to run charities if, as even you've said, the churches spend a ton of money on non-charitable activities? Wouldn't it be better to spend more money on charity?

[Hydra009]

Most of the money given to churches go to the upkeep of the old buildings.

And they just barely have enough left over for mansions.  Imagine how difficult it must be to go to work and barely clear 6 or 7 figures.  My heart goes out to these downtrodden, impoverished souls.  Be brave!

[josephpalazzo]

But weren't early Americans even more religious? Weren't they called pilgrims? I thought they left England because we weren't religious enough for them. I would have thought the US was founded on the pilgrim's staff. Every US President has to go for prayers in a church (I think it's Anglican probably for historical reasons) before the inauguration ceremony. Every President has to have a State Chaplain. I saw Obama's ceremony. It was pretty religious except that they don't do the coronation in the abbey. But it was still very religious. Rick Warren prayed. And every State address has to end with "God bless America". And of course the US dollar says "In God we trust".  Whereas our money even has Darwin's portrait. LOL. Honestly, the US is far more religious than England.

They fled because of religious PERSECUTIONS. Not the same. It is why the founding fathers of the US constitution made it clear that all public institutions should be secular, which btw if you haven't figured it out by now, is the best way that all religions are respected. Now that doesn't mean that religion would cease to exist. Au contraire, it has flourished but not for ONE denominations but for ALL. In the intervening years, religion had to step back as science with its progressive agenda put many religious beliefs as questionable. So today the christians are fighting back, trying to restore their lost powers, and they're doing it by subverting the secular institutions that were put in place. And that's why atheists in the US must not give an inch in that battle, and why they will spend money to make sure schools don't give toys to children at christmas. It's not the giving they are objecting - any other organization, religious or not, is ok with atheists - but what they are objecting to is that the schools should be doing that function.

[PickelledEggs]

And they just barely have enough left over for mansions.  Imagine how difficult it must be to go to work and barely clear 6 or 7 figures.  My heart goes out to these downtrodden, impoverished souls.  Be brave!

As Queensryche said: "God, the holy ghost is calling out to you. I want you to reach deep in to your hearts... and pocketbooks, and take his hand"

I'm not sure if that song is supposed to be mocking religion for their "need" for money, but I laugh every time I hear that opening monologue in that song.

[Johan]

Honestly, what is your beef? You can't stand the idea that a Christian can be without any superstition? The idea that a Christian can be totally rational and reject the supernatural as something that offends your worldview? What is the problem? Really?

I'm a vegetarian. I eat meat regularly, but I;m a vegetarian. And I've ALWAYS been a vegetarian. All my life. Except for one period of time when I wasn't. But even then I still was.

If you cannot see the problem with the concepts described above, then there is no point in discussing anything further with you.

[scroyle]

Supposing someone thinks I've been deceptive and takes me to court for being misleading because I represent myself as a cultural Christian. A fair judge wants to decide. Who do you think he will get as an expert witness? The archbishop of my church who crowns monarchs or an ex-Mormon or a lapsed catholic or Protestant or any atheist? If you can't be truthful in your reply I have nothing further to add.


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[Sargon The Grape]

Supposing someone thinks I've been deceptive and takes me to court for being misleading because I represent myself as a cultural Christian. A fair judge wants to decide. Who do you think he will get as an expert witness? The archbishop of my church who crowns monarchs or an ex-Mormon or a lapsed catholic or Protestant or any atheist? If you can't be truthful in your reply I have nothing further to add.

If it's an American judge, he'll hear the words "I don't believe in God," conclude that you are an atheist, and tell your archbishop to go suck a nut.

[PickelledEggs]

Holy crap Hijiri. You simultaneously trumped the conversation and used that gif you showed us a month or so ago. Well done.


Now that the debate is over, lets all get tattoos that say "Leviticus 19:28". You're buying though.

[Johan]

Supposing someone thinks I've been deceptive and takes me to court for being misleading because I represent myself as a cultural Christian. A fair judge wants to decide. Who do you think he will get as an expert witness? The archbishop of my church who crowns monarchs or an ex-Mormon or a lapsed catholic or Protestant or any atheist? If you can't be truthful in your reply I have nothing further to add.


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Your honor, I'd like to enter into evidence exhibit A, one Merriam-Websters Dictionary. Prosecution rests.

Look you wanna call yourself a christian? Knock yourself out. You can call yourself the god damn pope of Indiana for all I care. But if you want me or anyone else to  consider anything you say to be credible, well that's a different matter entirely. If you to be taken seriously, then you need to live by the same dictionary as everyone else.

Think of it this way. Lets say you go to work tomorrow and one of your coworkers walks in holding an orange traffic cone. You ask what's with the traffic cone and your coworker looks at you like your an idiot and says what traffic cone? You can THAT traffic cone, the one you're holding in your hand right now. Your coworker says what this? This isn't a traffic cone, its my new pencil. Ah a pencil you say. Does it write you ask? Well no, it doesn't write your coworker replies. Then its a traffic cone you say. Well maybe you like to define it as a traffic cone, but I choose to define it as a pencil. At that point any rational person would recommend that this particular coworker seek psychiatric help immediately. Can you understand why that would be?

[Sargon The Grape]

Holy crap Hijiri. You simultaneously trumped the conversation and used that gif you showed us a month or so ago. Well done.

A wise ass once told me, "Speak when you have something to say, not when you have to say something." I (attempt to) practice that whenever I enter threads like this one.

[Feral Atheist]

Honestly, what is your beef? You can't stand the idea that a Christian can be without any superstition? The idea that a Christian can be totally rational and reject the supernatural as something that offends your worldview? What is the problem? Really?

Yet you go on about treating the altar as a holy thing, won't step on it, make the ritualistic sign of the cross, participate in the symbolic cannibalism you call the sacrament, etc. 

You are either very confused, or just a troll.