Hi, I'm a cultural Christian

[La Dolce Vita]

I hope you understand what I'm saying. I'm not saying atheists are inept. You just need religious culture to get things done sometimes.

Incorrect, you just need structure. If we need your religious structure so badly, how come Scandinavia is doing so great? Utilization of socialism and secular (non-religious) means seems to do quite well. You keep ignoring the point, but secular charities do wonders too, and they are not religious.

[the_antithesis]

Childish superstition, rage, and even the potential for violence.

Well, religion is ultimately childish, so pridefully childish behavior from the religious is expected.

You know, I thought pride was a sin. They must all be going to hell.

[Hydra009]

I've only read about American Christians saying atheists will burn in hell. I've seen something to that effect in the Westboro Baptist Church's picketing. But in all my ENTIRE life as a Christian right through my altar boy days, I've NEVER heard such nonsense from any priest in my church or any other churches. Oh yes, I met some people in Leicester Square who told me I'd go to hell because I'd gone to St Paul's that morning.

I can tell you what country I grew up in but I'd rather keep my current location under wraps.

Suit yourself, Carmen Sandiego.  But everyone knows that Leicester Square is in London, England.

[scroyle]

Incorrect, you just need structure. If we need your religious structure so badly, how come Scandinavia is doing so great? Utilization of socialism and secular (non-religious) means seems to do quite well. You keep ignoring the point, but secular charities do wonders too, and they are not religious.

Scandinavia is doing well because it's socialist in structure and the State funds these things. I don't think you can compare a State funded charity with private enterprises. The church is private.

[the_antithesis]

Suit yourself, Carmen Sandiego.  But everyone knows that Leicester Square is in London, England.

Hee! :D

[scroyle]

Suit yourself, Carmen Sandiego.  But everyone knows that Leicester Square is in London, England.

But that was what I was prepared to tell.

[La Dolce Vita]

LOL. But honestly, I've not heard any normal sane Christian saying atheists will burn in hell.

What would your definition of sane be? There no secret that this is being stated from many a pulpit, and these people live relatively average lives despite their prejudices. I wouldn't call them insane personally.

I can tell you what country I grew up in but I'd rather keep my current location under wraps.

A country is a pretty sizeable "location". No one would have any clue of where in the country you would be.  I just want to check if your claims about your country are correct as so many of your arguments have been built on the situation, and it's a bit hard to argue against them when you are in the dark like that.

[josephpalazzo]

I've read the news about atheist associations in the US and the way they spend their money is appalling. They take legal action against schools that want to distribute toys to poor children on Christmas because it's religious and schools cannot get involved in religion - they have separation of State and church. A interviewer asked the president of the atheist association if his atheist group would get toys for poor children now that they had successfully stopped the school for doing that charity work. His reply was shocking. His atheist association spends their money suing people who do charity work in the name of religion but their money is not meant to be used as charity. The interviewer rightly pointed out that that was cold comfort for the children.

What surprised me was Richard Dawkins seemed to think the interviewer was harsh. I go the entire link to the article and the video of the interview from Dawkins' website. But that's the part of atheism I detest. They don't do any charity but they will stop others from helping poor children because of their rabid hatred for Christianity. And why do they hate Christianity? Because the Bible gets many facts wrong and ancient folks believed in supernatural beings. And they throw away an entire institution that has been in place with all its charitable works and infrastructure.  Who would work in a hospice for destitute people with no remuneration? It may be true that people who are willing to sacrifice their time and money doing these things also believe they will be rewarded after their death but the fact is they still do good work.

If you see how atheist groups function in the US, it's abominable. I'll probably listen to them more if they were to fight less and do more good. But when they go round suing those who do good and rejoicing when they can stop charity work, they do make themselves out to be quite disagreeable and I wouldn't want to be a part of them.

Perhaps one day atheist societies will stop fighting and start doing real charity work. Until that day comes, the world still needs the Church.

You are taking one fact out of context and not looking at the whole situation.  You should not look just at atheists being against schools giving toys to children on Christmas but the reason why atheists fight christians, which is to make sure that the US remains a secular society. The christians are fighting this on many fronts: they want to restore prayers in the schools, they want creationism to be taught in the science class on equal footing with evolution, they want all abortion clinics to be closed and deny women to make their own decision about their bodies, they are against Obamacare because firms must provide insurance that include coverage of contraceptives, they are against gay rights and gay marriage, they are against stem cell research, and for many, they are totally anti-science to the point that they deny not only evolution but climate change due to human activities, of which 95% of scientists have shown that it is happening right now. So before you condemn atheist actions in the US, please look at the whole picture.

[Mr.Obvious]

Scandinavia is doing well because it's socialist in structure and the State funds these things. I don't think you can compare a State funded charity with private enterprises. The church is private.

You do realize many churches and religious organizations receive money from the governments of the countries they are in, right? They are state funded, at least to an extent, definitely in Europe.
Also, do you or do you not, to finally get it straigth (because I'm still waiting), think that secular charity organizations are atheist charity organizations, or not?

Reminds me, I need to get debaptized stat, before I start working so I won't have to pay church tax but can have it go to something usefull.

[La Dolce Vita]

Scandinavia is doing well because it's socialist in structure and the State funds these things. I don't think you can compare a State funded charity with private enterprises. The church is private.

Exactly, that was part of my point, and quoted in your post. State funded charity is far more effective than private charity, and you run less of a risk with scams, etc. You stated that we needed your church's structure, but the state's structure is superior in every way, and through the utilization of it we in Scandinavia have very little need for private charity.

[scroyle]

You are taking one fact out of context and not looking at the whole situation.  You should not look just at atheists being against schools giving toys to children on Christmas but the reason why atheists fight christians, which is to make sure that the US remains a secular society. The christians are fighting this on many fronts: they want to restore prayers in the schools, they want creationism to be taught in the science class on equal footing with evolution, they want all abortion clinics to be closed and deny women to make their own decision about their bodies, they are against Obamacare because firms must provide insurance that include coverage of contraceptives, they are against gay rights and gay marriage, they are against stem cell research, and for many, they are totally anti-science to the point that they deny not only evolution but climate change due to human activities, of which 95% of scientists have shown that it is happening right now. So before you condemn atheist actions in the US, please look at the whole picture.

I don't know what problem atheists have with school prayers. My school has prayers and church too. It's run by the State church. The atheists in my country have no problem with this. Richard Dawkins himself leads in grace and he has to do that as a Fellow of his College. He has no problem with it and I don't know why American atheists find prayers so incredibly burdensome. In my country, our Head of State is the Head of my Church. She's the Defender of the Faith. The Head of State is crowned in church by a priest. Every marriage and birth and death of the royal family is celebrated in church and is a state event. But nobody has a problem with that because it's our culture. Can't you see that? Religion is all about culture. The supernatural can go but the culture remains.

[Poison Tree]

But like I've said, there was a period in my life when I decided to stop going to church and at that time I did embrace atheism. But I returned to the faith. How am I kidding you?

How long a period was that?

By the way, you've still failed to say why we should donate money to churches (where the vast majority does not go to doing charity work) as opposed to secular charities where it does. What's so special about church infrastructure that it needs 70%-99% overhead to do charity? Oh, but let me guess, your secret church in your hidden country has very low overhead and gives all of its money to the poor

[scroyle]

My profile picture is a photo I took of my church. I was baptised and confirmed here. I was an altar boy here. But I've never heard anyone saying atheists or anyone for that matter will be burnt in hell. Very few people in my church believe in a hell. It's such an obviously ridiculous idea that even the superstitious folks who believe in the supernatural do not accept the existence of such a silly torture chamber from the Middle Ages.

[scroyle]

How long a period was that?

By the way, you've still failed to say why we should donate money to churches (where the vast majority does not go to doing charity work) as opposed to secular charities where it does. What's so special about church infrastructure that it needs 70%-99% overhead to do charity? Oh, but let me guess, your secret church in your hidden country has very low overhead and gives all of its money to the poor

Most of the money given to churches go to the upkeep of the old buildings. It's frightfully expensive to maintain these old buildings. But I was talking about giving to the social arm of the church. Not the church directly which will swallow up your money to repair the old church building. But you can contribute to the church repair if you like to preserve a national heritage. Nothing wrong with that.

[La Dolce Vita]

I don't know what problem atheists have with school prayers. My school has prayers and church too. It's run by the State church. The atheists in my country have no problem with this. Richard Dawkins himself leads in grace and he has to do that as a Fellow of his College. He has no problem with it and I don't know why American atheists find prayers so incredibly burdensome. In my country, our Head of State is the Head of my Church. She's the Defender of the Faith. The Head of State is crowned in church by a priest. Every marriage and birth and death of the royal family is celebrated in church and is a state event. But nobody has a problem with that because it's our culture. Can't you see that? Religion is all about culture. The supernatural can go but the culture remains.

Because it's imposing religious believes upon others. That is immoral. You are right now championing immoral behavior. How would you, as a christian, like it to be forced to praise Allah or denounce everything you believe in every single day just to be able to get an education? Do you really not see how evil this is? I had actually never heard that about Dawkins, if true that is horrifying.

Also, if there's no actual god, what is the purpose of prayer? I can't fathom any other function than communication with a supernatural being you worship - but even if you find some other use - imposing it on others is still evil - particularly if you do not believe their souls, etc. depends on it. You are basically psychologically damaging people and abusing them for no purpose aside from the majorities culture. Should every non-christian Brit (which is a sizeable amount of people) just move away from the country? If you're english you were extremely misinformed about the amount of christians are in your country btw. You said 10%, but the stats I can find places it around 40-60%.