The Denial Dilemma

[athletesfeet]

Word up peeps! Been a while since I posted anything, but needed to discuss something that has bothered me for a long time. I have brought it up in the past, and I am no closer to understanding why supposedly intelligent people believe the most absurd things. I am an EE and my colleagues are mostly chem E and ME. I should also note that I am in the heart of Alabama. I am the only one out of the nearly 50 engineers I work with that is an atheist. I just finished listening to a group of 5 CEs talk about global warming being a hoax.  :shock:

3 weeks ago I listened to two MEs argue over the age of the earth. One said it was 6600 years old while the other said it was closer to 10,000 years old. again  :shock:

One ME told me that man and dinosaurs walked together and he called evolution, climate change, and a few other fields pseudoscience. He told me he can't fathom why smart people would believe any of these fields and is pissed the gubment spends money on them. again  :shock:

This happens so much it is scary and the denial has no end. These are smart educated engineers, and that's what blows me away. I don't get it.

[Plu]

Ask them to explain how evolution works. In addition to be complete BS, their story is probably hilarious. But the first step in realising that your position is full of shit is in trying to actually put your position to words. I wouldn't be surprised if they've never actually spent two minutes thinking about what they know about evolution other than "the pastor told me it is wrong".

[SGOS]

You can read Shermer's Why People Believe Weird Things and Dawkin's The God Delusion a hundred times.  The question is addressed there, but like you, I still don't understand it.  I can recite the psychological dynamics involved and the defense mechanisms that cause the denials, but it still doesn't make sense to me.  I think it's because I expect more from humanity.  But I've learned that I actually have no logical reason to expect more.  And I don't understand that either.

[AtheTurk]

because they just memorize, doesn't critisize, analyze and synthesize.

[stromboli]

Good to see you, Feets. Hard to say. There is a dude at Idaho State University, a professor in Anthropology and Anatomy, that believes in Bigfoot and is a staunch Mormon. I've worked with Engineers in the past that were highly educated Mormons, so you got me. Cognitive Dissonance: where the shit's made up and the facts don't matter.

[PopeyesPappy]

A large part of the problem is confirmation bias.

Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency of people to favor information that confirms their beliefs or hypotheses.[Note 1][1] People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way. The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs. They also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position. Biased search, interpretation and memory have been invoked to explain attitude polarization (when a disagreement becomes more extreme even though the different parties are exposed to the same evidence), belief perseverance (when beliefs persist after the evidence for them is shown to be false), the irrational primacy effect (a greater reliance on information encountered early in a series) and illusory correlation (when people falsely perceive an association between two events or situations).

[GSOgymrat]

Off the top of my head:

Just because your colleagues have a degree in engineering doesn't mean they are knowledgeable in other areas of science. As Plu suggested, they may have only a vague idea of evolution. I studied nuclear engineering at NCSU and it the program was similar to a large technical school; they didn't teach critical thinking.

It is easier, and often to one's advantage, to believe what the group believes especially if you have no vested interest in the topic or believing differently comes at a cost.  Basketball is part of the cultural fabric at NCSU. I had zero interest in basketball but learned quickly that if I wanted to be included I needed to know some of the main players and say I hate Carolina. I was happy to say our basketball team was number one because I really couldn't care less which team was objectively the best.

I think the reason some people resist climate change is because if one admits there is a problem the next question is what to do about it-- it's easier to just dismiss it, save yourself the anxiety and watch another funny cat video.

[athletesfeet]

I agree that having a degree in an engineering field doesn't mean they are knowledgeable in other areas of science. However, neither do I and I am not above their intelligence level, but I do understand the scientific method. These people still think a theory is a random idea with no base. I would think or assume that having the intelligence and drive to complete these courses would open you up to real truths. That's what assumptions do for you huh?

[Colanth]

There are probably more reasons to believe in a god than there are sects of Christianity.  Fear of death, uncertainty about things, not wanting to lose loved ones, desire to be part of the group, etc., etc.

I've worked with brilliant people who believed in all sorts of nonsense.  As Strom said, cognitive dissonance.  They can compartmentalize some pretty heavy science and some pretty stupid religion and believe both at the same time without seeing any conflict.

I've learned to not let it bother me.  Some of my tomatoes rot on the vine, some grow into the sweetest, most delicious fruit I've ever tasted - on the same plant.  Accept that some people have brains that mature "on one side" and rot on the other.  There's nothing you can do about it, there's no way to know what it's like unless you become one of them, so stop worrying about it.

[athletesfeet]

Good points from everybody and that is why I came here to discuss it. Maybe I should not let it bother me, but damn it almost hurts to sit in your chair and listen to the nonsense that flows from their mouths. My cheeks are sore from so many face palms.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Wait! Didn't GOD givem the ability to become engineers? Math and such is magic. It must be because I suck at it and I'm a genius! :)

[Solitary]

I think it shows that knowledge and intelligence are two different things. I have a friend that is an engineering physicist that still believes in God because it makes him feel good. I told him I don't understand how it makes you feel good when an all powerful God can seen you to hell on a whim, he hasn't written back in over a year.  :roll:  Solitary

[taikina]

i'm in denial about this. how can people go into academics while believing this shit?

because they just memorize, doesn't critisize, analyze and synthesize.

this is a pretty important thing to remember. there are different types of intelligence, and the memorization(the school favourite!) is the dumbest type of intelligence, storing vast amounts of data but not making any connections after it's actually in the head.

[Shiranu]

Same reason some intelligent people believe anarchy, libertarianism and neo-conservatism are good, practical ideas.
Same reason some intelligent people believe in a religious karma, alternative medicine and astrology are legitimate things.

I was going to go on, but I am lazy and just want to get to the point...

Being intelligent does not mean you are right. Intelligence merely makes you able to grasp more complex concepts and grasp them quicker. But one must first wish to seek the truth; regardless of how smart you are, if you do not look for what is right, you are not guaranteed to find it.

Even the dumbest people can be more correct on any subject, be it religion or science or politics, if the "smarter" person is not interested in the truth.

[Colanth]

Being intelligent does not mean you are right. Intelligence merely makes you able to grasp more complex concepts and grasp them quicker. But one must first wish to seek the truth; regardless of how smart you are, if you do not look for what is right, you are not guaranteed to find it.

Even the dumbest people can be more correct on any subject, be it religion or science or politics, if the "smarter" person is not interested in the truth.

QFT