Started by Baruch, November 19, 2018, 08:35:34 PM
Quote from: viocjit on January 22, 2019, 02:01:56 PMThanks Baruch for sharing these videos showing how sound these extinct languages even if it can't be 100% accurate.
Quote from: Baruch on January 28, 2019, 07:23:09 PMThe hate speech laws in the EU are a tricky business. It can so easily be used to suppress legitimate non-violent dissent. This is not to say that there is anything wrong with the EU, they are simply not the US. Neither is GB or even Canada.On the other hand, the US is moving rapidly, per neo-con/neo-lib agreement into a Chinese style Internet dictatorship. We will have to see how far the "free speech" can be nullified by Deep State fiat, without violating the letter of the law. The spirit of the law, however is routinely raped here. In US terms, with Liberty being Marianne, she is pretty much a NYC whore now.
Quote from: viocjit on January 30, 2019, 05:29:32 AMYou are speaking about hate speech laws in EU countries.The article of French penal code I was speaking with you (433-5) is problematic because its content can be interpreted in many ways.I think the "dÃ©lit d'outrage" or "contempt delict , contempt misdemeanour" must be abrogated fully or abrogated to become a contravention or petty offence in English to prepare its full abrogation. There were so many abuses of prosecutions that we must abolish it and many people where prosecuted for imaginary contempt because they were falsely accused.In the French criminal system there are three categories of "infractions pÃ©nales" (Penal infractions / Criminal infractions / Criminal offences).You can find contravention (petty offence) divided in five classes defined in article 131-13 of penal code.The fine is a possible penalty among many like lose your right to own a firearm , complete a citizenship course (Stage de citoyennetÃ©) at the offender's expense , compensate your victim etc... but you can't be jailed for a petty offense.The first category is punishable by a maximum fine of â,¬38.The second category is punishable by a maximum fine of â,¬150.The third category is punishable by a maximum fine of â,¬450.The fourth category is punishable by a maximum fine of â,¬750.The fifth category is punishable by a maximum fine of â,¬1500.For some fifth category petty offence a repeat offence = a maximum fine of â,¬3000.For some fifth category petty offence a repeat offence = A felonyRead articles 131-12 to 131-18 of French penal code to understand what are penalties available for petty offences.Google translate can help.You can find dÃ©lit (Delict / Misdemeanour).The maximum penalty for a misdemeanour can't exceed ten years of jail sentence.The fine is a possible penalty among many like lose your right to own a firearm , lose your right to vote (rarely enforced) , lose your driving licence etc... Fines for a felony are between â,¬3750 and â,¬7,500,000If a person face a fine of â,¬3750 the judge can lowered it and a judge can condemn you to a fine of â,¬1 symbolic euro.Minimum penalties don't exist in French penal system. There are only maximum penalties.Read articles 131-3 to 131-9 French penal code to understand what are basic penalties available for felonies.You can find crime that can be translated as felony (We don't pronounce it as the English word crime but spelling is the same).The minimal sentence for a felony is 10 years of jail but judge is not under obligation to condemn person by the minimal sentence as he can lowered it.The maximum sentence for a felony is life imprisonment with a parole of 22 or 30 years. Without parole doesn't exist in France.The fine is a possible penalty among many like lose your right to own a firearm , lose your right to vote (rarely enforced) , being prohibited to be in contact with some individuals etc... Fines for a felony are between â,¬3750 and â,¬7,500,000If a person face a fine of â,¬3750 the judge can lowered it and a judge can condemn you to a fine of â,¬1 symbolic euro.Minimum penalties don't exist in French penal system. There are only maximum penalties.Read articles 131-1 and 131-2 of French penal code to understand what are basic penalties available for felonies.You must read fully the first book (livre) of penal code which the title is "Disposition GÃ©nÃ©rales" or "General dispositions in English" to understand fully how penalties work.The penalties indicated in the penal code for any infractions are the maximum and rarely enforced in practice.Often people who committed a hate speech (Racist speech , Homophobic speech , Sexist speech etc...) are condemned to "prison avec sursis" (Suspended prison sentence) and not "prison ferme" (prison terms).I will speak only about contempt today because my message would be extremely long if was quoting the majority of articles in the penal code against hate speech.Article 433-5 of French penal code in French :"Constituent un outrage puni de 7 500 euros d'amende les paroles, gestes ou menaces, les Ã©crits ou images de toute nature non rendus publics ou l'envoi d'objets quelconques adressÃ©s Ã une personne chargÃ©e d'une mission de service public, dans l'exercice ou Ã l'occasion de l'exercice de sa mission, et de nature Ã porter atteinte Ã sa dignitÃ© ou au respect dÃ» Ã la fonction dont elle est investie.Lorsqu'il est adressÃ© Ã une personne dÃ©positaire de l'autoritÃ© publique, l'outrage est puni d'un an d'emprisonnement et de 15 000 euros d'amende.Lorsqu'il est adressÃ© Ã une personne chargÃ©e d'une mission de service public et que les faits ont Ã©tÃ© commis Ã l'intÃ©rieur d'un Ã©tablissement scolaire ou Ã©ducatif, ou, Ã l'occasion des entrÃ©es ou sorties des Ã©lÃ¨ves, aux abords d'un tel Ã©tablissement, l'outrage est puni de six mois d'emprisonnement et de 7 500 euros d'amende.Lorsqu'il est commis en rÃ©union, l'outrage prÃ©vu au premier alinÃ©a est puni de six mois d'emprisonnement et de 7 500 euros d'amende, et l'outrage prÃ©vu au deuxiÃ¨me alinÃ©a est puni de deux ans d'emprisonnement et de 30 000 euros d'amende."Article 433-5 of French penal code in English translated by myself with the help of an old outdated official translation :"Contempt is punished by a fine of â,¬7,500. It consists of words, gestures or threats, written documents or pictures ofany type not released to the public, or the sending of any article addressed to a person discharging a public servicemission, acting in the discharge or on the occasion of his office, and liable to undermine his dignity or the respect owedto the office that he holds.When it is addressed to a person holding public authority, contempt is punished by one's year imprisonment and afine of â,¬15,000.When it is addressed to a person discharging a public service mission and the offence is committed inside a schoolor an educational establishment, or in the surroundings of such an establishment at a time when the pupils are arrivingor leaving the premises, contempt is punished by six months' imprisonment and by a fine for â,¬7,500.When committed during a meeting, contempt under the first paragraph is punished by six months' imprisonment anda fine of â,¬7,500, and the contempt set out in the second paragraph is punished by two year's imprisonment and a fine ofâ,¬30,000."