TV Series Thread

[Nobody]

I don't recall any Romulan ships crashing, but I know the Enterprise did, at least once.

[Cassia]

I don't recall any Romulan ships crashing, but I know the Enterprise did, at least once.

No Trek ship could defeat the Eagle 5

[the_antithesis]

[Hydra009]

Lately, there has just been a smorgasbord of TADC theory-crafting and I'm all for it.

We're waaay past "Jax is a NPC" territory here.  We're doing deep analysis of the personalities of the main cast - especially Jax - speculating on the Caine and Abel company, anticipating Caine's big breakdown, and dissecting I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream.  FYI - in episode 5, the gang voted on Jax's proposal to turn Zooble into a slug and boy oh boy, did that reference fly over my head the first time around but it's downright chilling now.  (to Caine) "I don't even have a mouth" :-X

I haven't been this engrossed in a show for a while.  It's kinda strange since the show seems so goofy and silly on the surface, but jeez, there's a lot of meat on the bones if you know what to look for.

I just saw a really good analysis of Pomni and how she's the key to how it'll all end.

She's the POV character so obviously, she has a big influence on the outcome of the show, but it's more than that - in the pilot, all the others are too beaten down or isolated to have much agency, but she reaches out to all of them one after another, they bond, and come to each other's aid (with one notable exception)

Pomni is an everyman (everywoman?) and that makes her different from the others.  She bonds the most with characters she can relate to - like Gumigoo who had his world shattered like her and went through an existential crisis like her. She's sympathetic towards Ragatha and Kinger, but she doesn't completely relate to their struggles - Ragatha dealing with abuse (a big part of why she's so upset with Jax) and Kinger dealing with loss.  Along with Zooble later on, they're good people who come to the aid of others, creating a sort of proto society within the Digital Circus.  This is an extremely powerful survival strategy within the circus and something that personally appeals to me greatly.

However, Pomni's personality is not completely in line with Team NiceGuys - notably prioritizing her own needs over Ragatha in the pilot and her desire to seek out Gumigoo over Gangle's feelings in episode 4.  While she greatly desires safety and community, Pomni's main goal from day one is freedom.  And personality wise, she's more fun-loving and adventurous than Team NiceGuys, traits that push her more towards Jax - who is fun-loving and adventurous like her and who seemingly prioritizes his own freedom the most out of everyone.  But it's not really freedom he desires most, it's control - power over others.  That's why he bullies, why the maid outfit bothered him so much, why he gets really upset about Caine making him vegan, etc.  If that weren't bad enough, the big dealbreaker is that he's too cold and damaged to open up and bond in the ways that Pomni wants and needs, causing their relationship to fall apart.

So it looks like Pomni and Ragatha are going to rebond but the aggression and take-charge tactics Jax instilled on her are going to stick - so Pomni might become both a do-gooder and one who can take charge of the situation - something the Circus hasn't had until now.  And that key element might set the stage for the Circus to close forever.

But hey, that's just a theory...
A CIRCUS THEORY!
-and cut!

[Hydra009]

You know what drives me crazy?  Every time I recommend a show to people, I feel like I have to explain to them that the first couple of episodes, maybe the entire first season won't be as good as later episodes/seasons and that they should stick with it through the early episodes to get that sweet, sweet payoff later on.

Star Trek?  Literally invented the phrase "growing the beard" aka becoming better over time (Riker grew a beard)

Babylon 5?  You're not a true fan unless you wanted to stop watching somewhere in season 1.  Seasons 3 and 4 are masterpieces, though.

Farscape.  The pilot (literal in this case) was a doozy of an episode, but the second episode was a snoozefest.  It picked up from there, and got progressively better.  Got kinda wonky towards the end, though.

The Walking Dead started out kind meh personally and didn't get good until that CDC visit.  Personally, I got hooked in season 2 (which wasn't everyone's cup of tea) and it was pretty great through season 5.

There are a few shows don't start out at least kinda sorta bad.  The re-imagined Battlestar Galactica.  Game of Thrones.  Stargate Atlantis.  Archer.

The point is, saying the truth - that the show starts out less-than-stellar but gets better - instantly ruins people's perceptions of the show because it sounds like I'm warning them that it'll be bad initially but some sort of Stockholm Syndrome will keep them in it, which isn't at all what I meant.  I just mean that it'll be good now but amazing later and that you shouldn't expect it to be amazing right away.

How do you phrase this in a way that doesn't set off red flags?

[Nobody]

You could just tell people it starts out good and then gets even better.

[Cassia]

You could just tell people it starts out good and then gets even better.

I recommended "Weekend at Bernie's" to a girlfriend and she said she might not ever speak to me again.

[Nobody]

Well, I hope that comment was tongue-in-cheek!

[Cassia]

Well, I hope that comment was tongue-in-cheek!

Yeah, but it still comes up. How was I to know her fav uncle just died?

[Hydra009]

Helluva boss just got a new pilot episode for Amazon:

Old pilot for comparison:

I like it.  Even better than the original, which imo was kinda wonky.  In that one, Moxxie was complaining verging on whining, Loona was a bit too harsh on Moxxie (the infamous fatty joke), there was a Hazbin reference that was kinda out of place (they're not sinners, so her Hotel wouldn't really matter to them) and there were niche jokes like "blue water, stat" and dark jokes like killing the kids (first by accident, and then the kid wanting to die because he's fed up with them) and ending on a bit of a downer by explicitly calling out all their worst traits.  I also really didn't like how the original pilot started out with a bunch of car horns.  A good pilot with lots of gags, but lacking focus in some important areas like their job and character relations (esp Stolas and Loona)

This new pilot conveys all the pertinent information in a very easily digestible format: they live in hell, they're hired to assassinate humans which they do through the stolen grimwaire...gimwore...book, Millie and Moxxie truly love each other, Stolas and Blitz are doing it but it's more one-sided and Stolas' wife is pissed, Loona is Blitzo's adopted daughter, Loona insults Moxxie but Millie helps him not let it get under his skin.

They even give an explanation to why the assassinations are so theatrical - Moxxie would prefer them to be silent and clean but Blitzo finds that boring while Millie would like to purge everyone but Blitzo thinks that's too extreme.  So Blitz takes a third option - a bit chaotic and sloppy but also one where few bystanders are killed.

And finally, they put a half-hearted effort to make this pg-13 before swearing all over the place, doing the nasty with gusto, and then painting the town red.  Don't like it?  Watch Bluey instead, prude!

So what did you guys think?  Better than the original pilot?  Worse?

[Blackleaf]

Eh. The new episode zero is technically better than the pilot at setting up the characters and what to expect going forward (or backwards, since this was made after the rest), it uses the same voice actors as the rest of the show, and the animation quality is clearly better, but I don't know if I would have had any interest in following this show if this was my first impression of it. I feel the original pilot was just more endearing. Episode zero feels like a CliffNotes version of the show. It's a bit too straightforward and lacks in subtlety.

[Hydra009]

The original pilot had some fantastic lines.  The gift of spiders gets a chuckle out of me every time, especially because several of the spiders appear to be dancing their hearts out.  And kicking the baby in the stroller will never not be funny.

Blitzø: [after Blitzø hangs up, he breaks his phone in half, puts it in a blender and purees it]
    Blitzø: Eat this.
    Loona: [Loona drinks from the blender]
    Blitzø: And you know that bridge over the freeway?
    Loona: Yeah?
    Blitzø: Shit off it!

But yeah, there's nothing mysterious about it, especially since we already know so much (usually, pilots are the first thing you see, it's bizarre to see one halfway through a show)

One change I really appreciate is that it seems like the gang really do care about each other, even though they differ in their approach.  The original was way more antagonistic and looked like they were on the verge of breaking up.