:103: My Muslim friends BELIEVE god would "hate" his followers "asking too many questions"? The reason for this is the Imaams know the truth and someone is liable to find out.
1. The ORIGINAL QURAN IS NOT THE ONE USED TODAY In "Islam Reviewed" (available free online) M. Ali writes: "Almost every Muslim is taught from infancy to cling to the notion that the Bible has been corrupted and changed, while the Koran is free from corruption, perfectly preserved since the time of Muhammad. But a thorough study of the textual history of the Koran will show that it is not the Bible, but the Koran that has been changed. That is what Islamic historians themselves bequeathed to us."
"The Deedats, the Joommals, and the so-called Sheiks continue their unwarranted attack on the Bible while suppressing the fact that Khalif Uthman burned all the Koranic manuscripts apart from Hafsa's, and that Governor Marwan followed the example of Uthman by destroying the Hafsa text as well. Anyone with the slightest regard for truth would have to admit that the Textus Receptus of the Koran now in circulation is a far cry from the textus originalis!"
2. ALLAH EXISTED BEFORE THE QURAN AS THE ARABAIC MOON GOD During the 19th century, Arnaud, Halevy, and Glaser went to southern Arabia and dug up thousands of Sabean, Minaean, and Qarabanian inscriptions which were subsequently translatedThousands of inscriptions from walls and rocks in northern Arabia have also been collected. Reliefs and votive bowls used in worship of the "daughters of Allah" have also been discovered. The three daughters, Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat are sometimes depicted together with Allah the moon-god represented by a crescent moon above them
3.Muhammad was Demon Possessed : read the following references from Islamic sources. Multiple Islamic sources confirmed that Muhammad was Demon Possessed.
Sirat Rasul Allah, ibn Ishaq page 106
Muhammad say "Woe is me, POSSESSED, Never shall the Quraysh say this of me! I will go to the top of the mountain and throw myself dowm that I may KILL MYSELF and gain rest."
Sirat Rasul Allah, Ibn Ishaq, page 72
''I feared a Demon had POSSESSED HIM(Muhammad), I replied that I did."
Sahih Bukhari 2.225
Gabreel did not come to Muhammad (for some time) and so one of the Quraish women said, "His SATAN has deserted him."
I gave you a "like" for using decent sources. As my historical research has it ...
Muhammad was a clairvoyant, initially with a vision, and eventually with oracular powers. Oracular power is "automatic speech" ... and when in a trance, the many individual "epigrams" that Muhammad uttered, were written down, in several collections, but not as a book. Some forms of automatic speech are intelligible, others are not (pentecostalism, both modern and ancient). There are also cases of "automatic writing" which would be like a Ouija board session, with just one person. Like a Tarot card session, a sufficiently random phenomenon, like a Ouija board session, that is intelligible (has a system of interpretation as Tarot does) ... is regarded by many people as paranormal. It was later followers of Muhammad, ones who had known him in person, who produced written Qurans ... like Socrates and Jesus, the oracle never wrote anything down themselves. It was these several written Qurans, that are the subject of your post. Eventually over a 30 year period, these various versions were destroyed, added to, and edited ... to produce the one official version. It was considered essential, given it was a theocracy, for the Abbasid Caliphate in Damascus, to have a single authoritative version ... which basically is a constitution of the Caliphate, the same way the Bible was for pre-Roman Judaism.
So if one wants to ascribe paranormal events to demons, then yes it is demonic, but then so was Moses and Jesus. In my epistemology, I have room for paranormal experience ... but most here do not. Prophets or demon possession are simply bogus for them.
1. The ORIGINAL BIBLE IS NOT THE ONE USED TODAY
2. JEHEVOH EXISTED BEFORE THE BIBLE AS AN ANGRY DESERT GOD
3.Jesus was Demon Possessed :
FIFY
popeyespappy is what in urban slang is called a "PIMK FREUD." a mimic that has no rhyme, reason or logic just a knee jerk reaction to freudian delusion.
Quote from: neiswander on January 28, 2016, 06:05:25 PM
popeyespappy is what in urban slang is called a "PIMK FREUD." a mimic that has no rhyme, reason or logic just a knee jerk reaction to freudian delusion.
I prefer the Jungian delusion myself ;-)
Muhammad admitted he was possesed or whatever term you wish to use. That is about the only proof we have. Muslims have hidden all the other evidence. BUT you have no proof nor evidence the same is true of Moses or Jesus.
Quote from: neiswander on January 28, 2016, 06:14:14 PM
Muhammad admitted he was possesed or whatever term you wish to use. That is about the only proof we have. Muslims have hidden all the other evidence. BUT you have no proof nor evidence the same is true of Moses or Jesus.
Moses and Jesus are mythical, Muhammad was real. But I wouldn't want to examine too closely what schrooms the Jewish prophets were eating ;-)
All cases of paranormal, even if only a fictional stereotype, follow certain patterns. Mythical Moses and mythical Jesus ... are like Muhammad, only less real, and of course mythical Jesus was pacifist, like the good Buddhist he was. Moses and Muhammad have more in common, than the first letter of their name.
When the Muslims realized that the bible and the Quran differ, they had to do something.
Since they declared that the Quran is the immutable word of Allah, and Allah cannot make mistakes, the only option left is to say that the bible was altered by the Jews and Christians.
When and where, why or by whom this has taken place is not revealed.
There is simply no evidence but Muslims are convinced that this is so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsrpgBZupgU
Quote from: pr126 on January 29, 2016, 03:32:12 AM
When the Muslims realized that the bible and the Quran differ, they had to do something.
Since they declared that the Quran is the immutable word of Allah, and Allah cannot make mistakes, the only option left is to say that the bible was altered by the Jews and Christians.
When and where, why or by whom this has taken place is not revealed.
There is simply no evidence but Muslims are convinced that this is so.
Are you defending Gospel and Torah? The Jewish scriptures are pulled out of Jewish asses. Early Christian scriptures are also pulled out of Jewish asses. Of course our asses are much better than Gentile asses ... but I digress ;-)
Of course scripture has been modified ... including the Quran. None of it (if you don't believe in G-d) came from any divine source, it is simply an accumulation of self-referent fan fiction written by the immature.
It would be better for people to simply drop religion and scripture in the nearest trash bin ... and either have a direct relationship with G-d or not. But then I am "talking my book" as they say about duplicitous stock brokers ;-)
I do not defend anything here.
Please try and post with a little more sense.
Stop these irreverent quips that do not contribute to the discussion.
Don't be a putz.
You won't give credit to Muslims ... that they are correct about Jewish/Christian scripture. I am not expecting you to endorse Muslim scripture. You could have chosen to condemn all scripture two posts ago ... but you chose not to, it sounded like .... everything a Muslim says is a lie, so if they criticize the Bible then ... the Bible must be true. But maybe I read too much into it.
Quote from: Baruch on January 29, 2016, 12:46:22 PM
You won't give credit to Muslims ... that they are correct about Jewish/Christian scripture. I am not expecting you to endorse Muslim scripture. You could have chosen to condemn all scripture two posts ago ... but you chose not to, it sounded like .... everything a Muslim says is a lie, so if they criticize the Bible then ... the Bible must be true. But maybe I read too much into it.
Yes, you do. All scriptures, irrespective of origin are man made.
All religions, every god that ever existed, and there were many thousands in the past, and those still exist are man made.
Yes, even yours that you cannot even write properly, for reasons best known to you.
Quote from: pr126 on January 29, 2016, 01:12:09 PM
Yes, you do. All scriptures, irrespective of origin are man made.
All religions, every god that ever existed, and there were many thousands in the past, and those still exist are man made.
Yes, even yours that you cannot even write properly, for reasons best known to you.
Baruch on his worst day is still more interesting than your paranoid ramblings about "teh ebul mooselambs."
Secretly a Warsie.
Quote from: neiswander on January 28, 2016, 06:14:14 PM
Muhammad admitted he was possesed or whatever term you wish to use. That is about the only proof we have. Muslims have hidden all the other evidence. BUT you have no proof nor evidence the same is true of Moses or Jesus.
And what is the evidence for Moses and Jesus? Oh wait, the bible... :25:
Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on January 29, 2016, 01:48:33 PM
Baruch on his worst day is still more interesting than your paranoid ramblings about "teh ebul mooselambs."
Secretly a Warsie.
Correction. My paranoid ramblings are about the evil Islam. Not Muslims. Which is the ideology, not people.
But it is much easier to shut conversation down by implying that people are under attack, not their ideology.
Islam - Muslims are creatively interchangeable as situation demands.
In fact, I think the word
Islamophobia is a misnomer.
It should have been Muslimophobia.
Makes more sense.
Quote from: pr126 on January 29, 2016, 03:32:12 AM
When the Muslims realized that the bible and the Quran differ, they had to do something.
Since they declared that the Quran is the immutable word of Allah, and Allah cannot make mistakes, the only option left is to say that the bible was altered by the Jews and Christians.
When and where, why or by whom this has taken place is not revealed.
There is simply no evidence but Muslims are convinced that this is so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CsrpgBZupgU
do different versions of bible exist? if so, what difference is there?
that what they tell us, that there are huge number of different bibles, thus corrupted. :017:
Somebody please tell these people that in Islamic translations of old and new testemant the god is expressed as Allah.
How is it expressed in Christian translations of Quran?
Americans know that there is only one language, American. And that the English don't speak it correctly. So the fact that "god" in Arabic is "allah" or that "god" in Aramaic, the actual language of any historical Jesus is "alaha" is simply propaganda, so help me Alex Jones ;-)
Allah is not God, but the name of a god, just like Zeus, Odin, Apollo.
In Arabic, Ilah means god.
See the sahadah, there is no God but Allah. Now translate into Arabic.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-24516181
Quote from: pr126 on January 29, 2016, 11:37:25 PM
Islam - Muslims are creatively interchangeable as situation demands.
Indeed, for some, they are bigger than their religion, and so you can criticize their religion without offending them. I happen to know quite a few in that category. They will even join in your criticism. But then, you have the others for which religion is everything, and the slightest criticism becomes a personal insult. These are the ones you should avoid as they could be very dangerous.
QuoteIn fact, I think the word Islamophobia is a misnomer.
It should have been Muslimophobia.
Makes more sense.
Agree.
Quote from: pr126 on January 30, 2016, 11:08:32 AM
Allah is not God, but the name of a god, just like Zeus, Odin, Apollo.
In Arabic, Ilah means god.
See the sahadah, there is no God but Allah. Now translate into Arabic.
allah is not the name of ''a god''...but the name of ''the god'';
yes, ilah means god and ''el ilah'' that is, ''allah'' means ''the god''...''el'' is definite article in arabic...
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on January 30, 2016, 11:18:18 AM
allah is not the name of ''a god''...but the name of ''the god'';
yes, ilah means god and ''el ilah'' that is, ''allah'' means ''the god''...''el'' is definite article in arabic...
Theology vs linguistics.
Christos means anointed ... as in a king or prophet. But in Greek Christianity, it means Iesous (not Jesus).
It is natural for the uber-mensch to tell other countries how they should speak their own language. Biblical Hebrew attempts to cover up theology ... elohim is a plural .. but the rabbis have decreed otherwise. Otherwise one might learn that ancient Israelites were not monotheists.
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on January 30, 2016, 11:18:18 AM
allah is not the name of ''a god''...but the name of ''the god'';
yes, ilah means god and ''el ilah'' that is, ''allah'' means ''the god''...''el'' is definite article in arabic...
Sorry, but you have been lied to.
Allah was a pagan stone idol among 360 others in the Kaaba long before Muhammad promoted it to be the god of the Muslims.
Here it is. Still touched, kissed and revered by the Muslims, just like they did in pagan times. The hajj is a pagan ritual carried over to Islam.
(http://readthespirit.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/religious-holidays-festivals/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2013/10/0-The-Black-Stone-in-the-Kaaba.jpg)
Quote from: pr126 on January 30, 2016, 11:32:32 AM
Sorry, but you have been lied to.
Allah was a pagan stone idol among 360 others in the Kaaba long before Muhammad promoted it to be the god of the Muslims.
Here it is. Still touched, kissed and revered by the Muslims, just like they did in pagan times. The hajj is a pagan ritual carried over to Islam.
(http://readthespirit.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/religious-holidays-festivals/wp-content/uploads/sites/10/2013/10/0-The-Black-Stone-in-the-Kaaba.jpg)
that object that resemles vagina in the picture is ''hacer-ül esved'' that means ''black stone''...
exactly where you don't agree with what i said? you said that ilah is the general name for god...and allah means ''the god''...
Quoteexactly where you don't agree with what i said? you said that ilah is the general name for god...and allah means ''the god''...
No, Allah does not mean "The god" Allah means Allah.
Al Ilah means the god.
This is what I wrote:
QuoteAllah is not God, but the name of a god, just like Zeus, Odin, Apollo.
In Arabic, Ilah means god.
See the sahadah, there is no God but Allah. Now translate into Arabic.
Quote from: pr126 on January 30, 2016, 12:06:41 PM
No, Allah does not mean "The god" Allah means Allah.
This is what I wrote:
I understand from what you wrote that ilah is the general name(roof name) for god...
we can say ''greek gods'' or ''egyptian gods''; however, we can't say ''greek allahs'' or ''egyptian allahs'', because allah is a special god...from the family of gods which is believed at Muho's time...: )
we agree that ilah means god...and allah is formed from ''al-ilah'', that is, ''allah'' and here ''al'' is definite article in arabic like ''the'' in english...
there are another arabic words in english that begin with al...for examle: algebra: el-cebir; alcohol: al-kuhl...etc...
al is called in arabic as ''harf-i tarif''
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on January 30, 2016, 12:31:05 PM
I understand from what you wrote that ilah is the general name(roof name) for god...
we can say ''greek gods'' or ''egyptian gods''; however, we can't say ''greek allahs'' or ''egyptian allahs'', because allah is a special god...from the family of gods which is believed at Muho's time...: )
we agree that ilah means god...and allah is formed from ''al-ilah'', that is, ''allah'' and here ''al'' is definite article in arabic like ''the'' in english...
there are another arabic words in english that begin with al...for examle: algebra: el-cebir; alcohol: al-kuhl...etc...
al is called in arabic as ''harf-i tarif''
Whatever. Have it your way.
Quote"Allah is a special god. "
"Allah means 'the god."
Yeah linguistcs has nothing to do with any of this, right? :laugh:
Because 'a special god' or 'the god' makes any sense.
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 30, 2016, 01:36:19 PM
Yeah linguistcs has nothing to do with any of this, right? :laugh:
Because 'a special god' or 'the god' makes any sense.
by saying ''a special god'' i meant that allah is a proper name rather than a common name...before i have just learned the grammatical term ''proper name'' i was confused by the turkish translation of it ''özel isim'' :D
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on January 30, 2016, 12:31:05 PM
I understand from what you wrote that ilah is the general name(roof name) for god...
we can say ''greek gods'' or ''egyptian gods''; however, we can't say ''greek allahs'' or ''egyptian allahs'', because allah is a special god...from the family of gods which is believed at Muho's time...: )
we agree that ilah means god...and allah is formed from ''al-ilah'', that is, ''allah'' and here ''al'' is definite article in arabic like ''the'' in english...
there are another arabic words in english that begin with al...for examle: algebra: el-cebir; alcohol: al-kuhl...etc...
al is called in arabic as ''harf-i tarif''
Allah kelimesinin entimolojik kökeniyle ilgilenmiyor o. Okumuyo musun, bayılttı adam hepimizi senelerdir burda, Amerikalılara fenalık geldi hakaret edip duruyolar adama.
Eğer 'special god' diye ifade dersen, söz konusu yaratıcının özel olduğunu işaret etmiş olursun. Senin söylemek istediğin, o ismin özel bir isim olduğu olmalı. Ama eninde sonunda hiç bir şey fark etmez, çünkü Yahweh de bir tanrıya verilmiş özel isim, Christ da. Yani bir tanrı isminin özel olmasının o tanrının özel olmasıyla alakası yok. Aynı şey. Kültürel fark.
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on January 30, 2016, 02:07:23 PM
by saying ''a special god'' i meant that allah is a proper name rather than a common name...before i have just learned the grammatical term ''proper name'' i was confused by the turkish translation of it ''özel isim'' :D
I know, I just wrote that to you. But he is not interested in knowledge, he has an agenda. :lol:
Önceki sayfanın altında kaldı.
E: Bu arada vajinaya benzeyen lafına da koptum. Fazla türk işi olmuş... :lol: (Kızma, komik)
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 30, 2016, 02:09:48 PM
Allah kelimesinin entimolojik kökeniyle ilgilenmiyor o. Okumuyo musun, bayılttı adam hepimizi senelerdir burda, Amerikalılara fenalık geldi hakaret edip duruyolar adama.
Eğer 'special god' diye ifade dersen, söz konusu yaratıcının özel olduğunu işaret etmiş olursun. Senin söylemek istediğin, o ismin özel bir isim olduğu olmalı. Ama eninde sonunda hiç bir şey fark etmez, çünkü Yahweh de bir tanrıya verilmiş özel isim, Christ da. Yani bir tanrı isminin özel olmasının o tanrının özel olmasıyla alakası yok. Aynı şey. Kültürel fark.
harbiden garip biriymiş. oradaki al'ın artikel olduğunu benden öğrenince mesajı editledi :D
arapların dini tek tanrıcılığa evrilince ki yöredeki trend bu yöndeydi, ilah'ı artikel ile belirlemeyi münasip bulmuşlar galiba...
Quote from: SoldierofFortune on January 30, 2016, 02:24:18 PM
harbiden garip biriymiş. oradaki al'ın artikel olduğunu benden öğrenince mesajı editledi :D
Yapar öyle şeyler. Zararsız aslında. Ama o kadar çok tek bir dine, tek taraflı düşmanlık yapıyor ki, insanlar da rahatsız oluyor haliyle. Bi' de kendini çok iyi anlıyor sanıyo haspam o çok eğlenceli. :lol:
Quotearapların dini tek tanrıcılığa evrilince ki yöredeki trend bu yöndeydi, ilah'ı artikel ile belirlemeyi münasip bulmuşlar galiba...
Tabii yav. Dinin dili de evrilmiş gitmiş ona göre. Ama Araplar bütün müslümanların %12'si olduğundan ve diğer halklar -müslüman ya da değil- bir bok bilmediğinden kimsenin artikelden falan anladığı yok. Kendi dillerinde ibadet etmiyor ki, hiç bir müslüman halk. Bunu ve bunun olası sonuçlarını anlatmak çok zor bu adamlara doğal olarak. Hafsalası almıyo adamların. :lol: Anca bir kaçı işte.
Quote from: neiswander on January 28, 2016, 06:14:14 PM
Muhammad admitted he was possesed or whatever term you wish to use. That is about the only proof we have. Muslims have hidden all the other evidence. BUT you have no proof nor evidence the same is true of Moses or Jesus.
I don't know about muhammad but joseph and jesus did not exist. Do the research historians will be hesitant to tell you the truth but it's all there.
drunkenshoe wrote:QuoteBut he is not interested in knowledge, he has an agenda. :lol:
Indeed I have. I am trying to make people understand what Islam means to non Muslims.
Here is for example Quran 9:29
Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.Meaning: Fight [wage holy war] on those who do not believe in Allah, until they are subjugated, humiliated and pay the protection money, and if they are unwilling to do either of those, kill them because they have no value to Allah.
That is you, me and anyone that do not believe in Allah.
Which part of this
ideology you have failed to understand?
I don't give a shit what the Quaran says. More importantly, Muslims don't give a shit either. If they did we would have 2 in 10 people on Earth trying to murder the rest of us instead of tiny groups of guerrilla fighters peppered throughout the middle east beheading a few people, knocking over ancient statues, and desperately trying to be noticed.
Quote from: Nonsensei on January 30, 2016, 11:56:27 PM
I don't give a shit what the Quaran says. More importantly, Muslims don't give a shit either. If they did we would have 2 in 10 people on Earth trying to murder the rest of us instead of tiny groups of guerrilla fighters peppered throughout the middle east beheading a few people, knocking over ancient statues, and desperately trying to be noticed.
Let's see.
QuoteI don't give a shit what the Quaran says.
You better, it is a war manual against 80 % of humanity.
QuoteMuslims don't give a shit either.
Enough of them do and even more supporting, financing them to make a difference and set the planet on fire. More joining every day.
QuoteIf they did we would have 2 in 10 people on Earth trying to murder the rest of us instead of tiny groups of guerrilla fighters peppered throughout the middle east beheading a few people, knocking over ancient statues, and desperately trying to be noticed.
27,712 terror attacks since 2001 (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/) But it is happening far away to other people. Why worry?
Because this has been happening for the last 14 centuries, in the name of a book that you don't give a shit about.
More than not giving a shit, only 12 % of muslims are Arabs and the language of the book is not even the language they use. Considering none of the islamic societies worship or pray in their own language, what Quran says is pretty much obscure for them.
Try telling any Muslim that the Quran is just another book like any other, of no real significance.
Then stand well back and watch the fireworks.
Quote from: pr126 on January 31, 2016, 07:13:38 AM
Try telling any Muslim that the Quran is just another book like any other, of no real significance.
Then stand well back and watch the fireworks.
Yes. But I don't think fireworks are the accurate word accurate here. You mean violence?
Quote from: drunkenshoe on January 31, 2016, 08:30:18 AM
Yes. But I don't think fireworks are the accurate word accurate here. You mean violence
A mild disapproval. Nothing serious.
Myeh, clumsy usage of sarcasm.
Quote from: pr126 on January 31, 2016, 12:16:44 AM
Let's see.
You better, it is a war manual against 80 % of humanity.Enough of them do and even more supporting, financing them to make a difference and set the planet on fire. More joining every day. 27,712 terror attacks since 2001 (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/) But it is happening far away to other people. Why worry?
Because this has been happening for the last 14 centuries, in the name of a book that you don't give a shit about.
Even if 100 different people were involved in each individual act of terrorism (instead of the usual 1 or 2 in reality) thats still less than 3 million Muslims out of a population of 1.6 billion. Just so we are clear on the maths of that, its about a tenth of one percent of Muslims.
No matter how many murky claims of clandestine financial support you try in insinuate, the undeniable reality is that the majority of Muslims aren't taking that part of the Quran seriously. Just like Christians who ignore the parts about stoning their kids to death for talking back, Muslims are not interested in going out and "slaying the infidel" so they just ignore that part or interpret it away.
Theres never any news stories about those people. The people for whom Islam is nothing more than background music to their every day lives. Thats boring. Now, a psycho Imam demanding all "true Muslims" rise up and deliver death to the West? Thats sexy! The news can do a really nice "I KNEW IT, THEY REALLY ARE TRYING TO KILLS US" piece and get a ton of ad revenue as irrationally terrified people sit in their living rooms and wring their hands nervously, wondering if and when the next "highly organized" and "sophisticated" suicide vest attack will be near them.
The number of Muslims that take this shit seriously isn't even a drop in the ocean to the total number of Muslims on Earth. The number of victims of terrorist attacks isn't even a drop in the ocean to the total number of people on Earth or even the thousands of people who die every day from various causes. You see some guy blew himself up in a cafe and killed 12 people and you get all bent out of shape and spend 20 mins making a post about it but in that time 40 kids starved to death in Ethiopia and nobody gives a fuck. Shit like that is not even worthy of mention in our typical discourse.
There are way bigger problems on Earth that get virtually no play in the media. I'm tired of having my emotions manipulated for the sake of network ad revenue under the pretense of keeping us informed. I'm tired of focusing on a relatively insignificant issue to the virtual exclusion of any serious issue.
The success rate of terrorists when compared to their stated goals is 0%. I'm finished cowering in the corner, keeping a wary eye on everyone around me names Rashid just because Wolf Blitzer has a voice that could make a fluf story about girl scout cookies sound like World War 3 is coming.
Enough is enough.
For Americans, not Europeans. Islam means Black folk, it means Farrakhan and Nation of Islam (though when Elijah Muhammad died, most NoI folks deserted Farrakhan, because he is no Malcolm X). Most NoI people validated the POV that Malcolm X had at the end of this life, before someone (maybe Farrakhan under orders from Elijah Muhammad) had him snuffed. They simply wanted to be regular Muslims, not members of a cult of personality. So for most Americans, except around Detroit where there are a lot of non-Black Muslims ... this ties in with our ur-racism. We were afraid of every gang-banging Black youth, long before 9/11.
European history is different. In France, the majority of Muslims are Black W Africans from the former French colonies. They have only had 50 years to assimilate that migration, just like Americans have had to do with Mexicans. But African-Americans have been here since Jamestown.
But yes, if 1% of Mexicans etc are criminals, then there are a near infinity of criminals, who somehow are worse that the White folk white collar criminals ... because unless you are African-American, you usually don't say to yourself ... when you look in the mirror ... that is one handsome/beautiful criminal we have here. Reduce the human population by 99%, and you will have 99% less criminals, along with everyone else ... if you think it is worth such a Draconian solution. Nuke away my boys, nuke away ...
Quote from: Nonsensei on January 31, 2016, 10:19:09 AM
Even if 100 different people were involved in each individual act of terrorism (instead of the usual 1 or 2 in reality) thats still less than 3 million Muslims out of a population of 1.6 billion. Just so we are clear on the maths of that, its about a tenth of one percent of Muslims.
No matter how many murky claims of clandestine financial support you try in insinuate, the undeniable reality is that the majority of Muslims aren't taking that part of the Quran seriously. Just like Christians who ignore the parts about stoning their kids to death for talking back, Muslims are not interested in going out and "slaying the infidel" so they just ignore that part or interpret it away.
Theres never any news stories about those people. The people for whom Islam is nothing more than background music to their every day lives. Thats boring. Now, a psycho Imam demanding all "true Muslims" rise up and deliver death to the West? Thats sexy! The news can do a really nice "I KNEW IT, THEY REALLY ARE TRYING TO KILLS US" piece and get a ton of ad revenue as irrationally terrified people sit in their living rooms and wring their hands nervously, wondering if and when the next "highly organized" and "sophisticated" suicide vest attack will be near them.
The number of Muslims that take this shit seriously isn't even a drop in the ocean to the total number of Muslims on Earth. The number of victims of terrorist attacks isn't even a drop in the ocean to the total number of people on Earth or even the thousands of people who die every day from various causes. You see some guy blew himself up in a cafe and killed 12 people and you get all bent out of shape and spend 20 mins making a post about it but in that time 40 kids starved to death in Ethiopia and nobody gives a fuck. Shit like that is not even worthy of mention in our typical discourse.
There are way bigger problems on Earth that get virtually no play in the media. I'm tired of having my emotions manipulated for the sake of network ad revenue under the pretense of keeping us informed. I'm tired of focusing on a relatively insignificant issue to the virtual exclusion of any serious issue.
The success rate of terrorists when compared to their stated goals is 0%. I'm finished cowering in the corner, keeping a wary eye on everyone around me names Rashid just because Wolf Blitzer has a voice that could make a fluf story about girl scout cookies sound like World War 3 is coming.
Enough is enough.
You are not the poster who left the forum couple of years ago. You have changed. At least about this issue.
QuoteEven if 100 different people were involved in each individual act of terrorism (instead of the usual 1 or 2 in reality) thats still less than 3 million Muslims out of a population of 1.6 billion. Just so we are clear on the maths of that, its about a tenth of one percent of Muslims.
No matter how many murky claims of clandestine financial support you try in insinuate, the undeniable reality is that the majority of Muslims aren't taking that part of the Quran seriously. Just like Christians who ignore the parts about stoning their kids to death for talking back, Muslims are not interested in going out and "slaying the infidel" so they just ignore that part or interpret it away.
Unfortunately there is still adherence to these achaic beliefs. Stoning still happens in parts of the world, and it is Muslims who partake in it.
Crimes for apostasy/homosexuality are still widely enforced, with the death penalty in some cases.
To claim they longer pay any attention to the barbaric aspects of their religion in any general sense is categorically false.
QuoteTheres never any news stories about those people. The people for whom Islam is nothing more than background music to their every day lives. Thats boring. Now, a psycho Imam demanding all "true Muslims" rise up and deliver death to the West? Thats sexy! The news can do a really nice "I KNEW IT, THEY REALLY ARE TRYING TO KILLS US" piece and get a ton of ad revenue as irrationally terrified people sit in their living rooms and wring their hands nervously, wondering if and when the next "highly organized" and "sophisticated" suicide vest attack will be near them.
The number of Muslims that take this shit seriously isn't even a drop in the ocean to the total number of Muslims on Earth. The number of victims of terrorist attacks isn't even a drop in the ocean to the total number of people on Earth or even the thousands of people who die every day from various causes. You see some guy blew himself up in a cafe and killed 12 people and you get all bent out of shape and spend 20 mins making a post about it but in that time 40 kids starved to death in Ethiopia and nobody gives a fuck. Shit like that is not even worthy of mention in our typical discourse.
Perhaps it is overblown to an extent in countries that do not have a large Muslim population, but I'm not sure you can say the same thing for countries where Islam is widely practised, as this is where a vast majority of such attacks occur.
Clashes pertaining to disagreements in the interpretation of religious doctrine are extremely bitter and have a terrible impact on many lives.
Typically, where Islam is more widely practised, there is more of this kind of violence. This is not insignificant.
QuoteThere are way bigger problems on Earth that get virtually no play in the media. I'm teed of having my emotions manipulated for the sake of network ad revenue under the pretense of keeping us informed. I'm tired of focusing on a relatively insignificant issue to the virtual exclusion of any serious issue.
The success rate of terrorists when compared to their stated goals is 0%. I'm finished cowering in the corner, keeping a wary eye on everyone around me names Rashid just because Wolf Blitzer has a voice that could make a fluf story about girl scout cookies sound like World War 3 is coming.
Enough is enough.
Having people cow in fear is their goal, whether our media, unwittingly or otherwise, helps them to achieve that.
Ever since that fateful day where Rushdie was assigned bodyguards, what they have been doing is working.
The implications of being critical of other religions are typically much less dire, but with Islam you have this constant spectre of retaliatory violence.
Time and again we have been threatened and attacked for depicting Mohammed in the media, and now a lot of major outlets refuse to do so anymore.
This is especially true for Muslims who question the commonly held concensus, as they percieve it as treason, and they probably have a much better idea where to find these individuals.
It may be because so many of us have refused to acknowledge this elephant in the room because we refuse to discuss it and try to forget it's there, in particular our leaders, but their threats and acts of violence have actually been quite effective.
The elephant in the room is, if you want to teach people how superior your country is, you need to invade it and colonized it ... just like the British Empire etc. It was entirely a mistake perhaps, to not continue the full imperial system, no matter how many Gunga Dins we would have to slaughter.
These protestors in 1919 are just like Ferguson rioters ... shoot the buggers, huzzah!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE9_zB8k_lk
There were plans for sharpshooters to shoot the Occupy protestors ... and they have worse plans than that (crowd control heat rays etc). We are all slaves now. Of course if you are not armed, and don't indicate any hostile intent ... this indicates the degree of diabolical peasantry you are.
QuoteThe success rate of terrorists when compared to their stated goals is 0%.
What are their stated goals?
By the way, 27712 terrorist attacks since 9/11 (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/) is a little more than zero.
But this is just one tool of jihad, the part that gets noticed.
Jihad by the sword (jihad bis saif) refers to qital fi sabili Allahi ([armed] fighting in the way of Allah, or holy war), this is the most common usage by Salafi and Wahhabi Muslims and the most ancient. For example, Sahih Bukhari (the pre-eminent Hadith collection of Sunni Islam) has ~200 references to jihad and 98% (~196) of them refer to it in the sense of armed warfare against non-Muslims{2}.There are more ways (http://counterjihadreport.com/tag/four-kinds-of-jihad/) to do jihad that gets little notice but still very effective.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiwKx6MOYu0
Missed your opportunity in the British occupation of India?
Quote from: Baruch on February 01, 2016, 12:42:17 AM
Missed your opportunity in the British occupation of India?
Just to let you know, I am an immigrant to the UK. From Eastern Europe.
Quote from: pr126 on February 01, 2016, 12:57:11 AM
Just to let you know, I am an immigrant to the UK. From Eastern Europe.
But via Israel as a child ... I think you admitted. Not that I will rag on anyone, not even Israelis. But colonialism is so ... European (and Zionist too). Just go occupy some country and take all their shit ... and stop looking down on the Nazis ... in Europe you are either a Nazi or a wannabe ... like Churchill. Of course Americans are so different (I wish). If they don't like you or you taking their shit, shoot them like the dogs they are. This is what humanity is all about, not that humanism crap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJZIBx1fpUU
But then the Vikings (cousins of the Anglo-Saxons) improved the English bloodlines ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAtmPOs8q20
If the 7th century is relevant to Arabs, it is to English also
So how are the Anglo-Saxons treating you?
QuoteBut via Israel as a child ... I think you admitted.
Admitted? Like someone confessing a crime?
Hmm.
But what has all this to do with the price of fish?
Quote from: pr126 on February 01, 2016, 01:14:31 AM
Admitted? Like someone confessing a crime?
Hmm.
But what has all this to do with the price of fish?
Not much, only you left that little bit out. I didn't get to choose where I was born either ... and immigration to a new country is great ... and yes there are differences between immigrants who want to conform, and those who don't. Have you been Borged into watching Dr Who and having afternoon tea yet? ;-) I have imagined immigration, at least as an American ex-pat ... because I know some of the stories of ancestors who left Europe for the US. You have had an adventurous life, I would hate to see it end is such bitterness ... but this is not uncommon for older folks. Go have a slice of Stilton for me.
Lived in the UK for 46 years now, fully assimilated.
I do like Stilton, but I like Brie better. The French import, not the local one.
Quote from: Cocoa Beware
To claim they longer pay any attention to the barbaric aspects of their religion in any general sense is categorically false.
I didn't do that. We are specifically talking about the aspects of the Quran that demand the slaying of infidels and such. By the numbers, Muslims overwhelmingly ignore that commandment.
Quote from: Cocoa Beware
Having people cow in fear is their goal.
No it isn't. That is their method. Their goals are quite tangible. Destroy or overthrow the west. Spread the Islamic state across the world. Even short term goals like force x government to release y prisoner or force a government to reverse or implement a policy they want. 100% failure rate every time.
Given Pr126's view of their goal, they have been 100% successful with him. But again, a minuscule percentage of Britain. Good thing he doesn't think their goal is to eat all the chicken curry in London, or he would have to go to every take out and spy on their diabolical eating habits ;-(
The ability of people to deny an unpleasant reality can be impressive.
Quote from: pr126 on February 02, 2016, 12:09:52 AM
The ability of people to deny an unpleasant reality can be impressive.
We have plenty of unpleasant reality in the US too. Since the US is bigger than GB ... is it impressive? In our immoral gene splicing, we combined a donkey with an elephant ;-(
Quote from: Baruch on February 02, 2016, 06:57:38 AM
We have plenty of unpleasant reality in the US too. Since the US is bigger than GB ... is it impressive? In our immoral gene splicing, we combined a donkey with an elephant ;-(
You are referring to the Reps and Dems I presume?
Quote from: pr126 on February 02, 2016, 07:09:29 AM
You are referring to the Reps and Dems I presume?
Yes, the literal combination would have to be in GB, where mad scientism is the norm. It is the Island of Dr Moreau.
Quote from: Baruch on February 02, 2016, 07:14:04 AM
Yes, the literal combination would have to be in GB, where mad scientism is the norm. It is the Island of Dr Moreau.
Do you really believe that there is a difference between the two?
R vs D is only a matter of style ... and for some folks, style is everything ;-) Their common coin is "power".