Veterans Asshattery

[Gawdzilla Sama]

'taint controversial enow, laddies. kick 'er up a notch.

I speak as a historian, not a veteran there.

Btw, thanks for the poem. Haven't read Kipling in awhile.

It rings true down the ages.

[Jack89]

The only time I've ever used "I'm a veteran" in an argument was when arguing with some armchair general about the urgent need for other people to go out and fight wars that the armchair general thought were important enough to fight but not important enough to do anything about themselves.  I don't believe our current several wars are worth it, and like many people in the military I'm not very much in favor of going to war.

So beyond that, I really am not sure exactly what the OP is talking about.

Yep

[PickelledEggs]

When a Society parades a group of ex soldiers as heroes and says they can have everything and they trample on ordinary citizens doesn't that piss you off?

You mean the people that went out of their way to push themselves past their limits and then some, mentally and physically to do what was needed of them? Some of which, come back mentally and physically scarred and without some of the people that became as close as family to them?
I'm not a vet, nor do I like war or think it's the best answer to problems, but no. They completely deserve a day of recognition as well as a parade, including the few assholes that come out of those foxholes and are now vets.

Tis a feeling I can't let go, when I ask for none of this crap, and yet i'm treated as a second class citizens because I'm not a veteran, or a person that likes to use weapons that symbolize war and destruction and parade it around and beat people physically or mentally if not for such weapons or ideas.

You're entitled to your feelings/opinions, but I recommend you get your panties out of a bunch.

Flame war spotted. I'm out.

I looked all over for a .gif of someone hitting a beehive and getting startled by the swarm that he pissed off... confused at why the hive would want to sting him for what he did. Couldn't find one though... Use your imagination to picture that image.

[Draconic Aiur]

I said I was sorry ok? jeez

[Nonsensei]

My brother is a nam vet, 90% of his posts are about vets and how hey deserve to be honored at every turn and twist. I'll honor someone when I want to, and certainly not when someone suggests I need to. The other 10% is about Obama being a traitor and of course the obligatory god posts.

Maybe you're sick of hearing it, but honestly those guys who fought in Vietnam deserve an official apology from the federal government for starting the war, and another one from the general population for shitting on them when they came back.

Its always baffling to me when people shit on the soldiers. Talk about a group of people completely without the power to make any decisions. And in Vietnam they didn't even have a choice of whether or not to enlist. Any time you feel upset at the actions of a soldier on the battlefield or angry at the ignoble reasons we are taking a military action, just try to keep in mind that those soldiers are there under the orders of a politician. A politician YOU took part in electing.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

I have a problem with the draft in that with many of the folks running for or currently serving in office in congress or even the whitehouse it becomes like the budget surpluses. Oh lookee! We have X dollars just sitting around not being spent so by all means let's spend them on MY pet project. If suddenly we have a huge surplus of able bodied men and women sitting around not fighting a war then we damned well better just go start one of them there wars to give them lazy fuckers something to do..  See the problem? These fuckers would start a war just because the gubnit is paying people to do nothing or at least that's how they'll see it.
No, I'd much rather have not enough people in the military and make them actually justify sending people off to die than just sending them off to die for no goddamned good reason...not that they'll ever find a good reason, but a shortage of people at the very least gives them a reason to have to think of a reason.
If there's a legitimate reason for a draft like a REAL war and not the imaginary bullshit wars that's one thing, but starting wars just to give people something to do is quite another.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

We don't need a huge surplus of people in the military, we wouldn't draft 50,000,000 people. The draft would be to fill certain slots, not prepare to invade Normandy. (Even in WWII we limited the number of divisions we were going to develop.)

[Baruch]

We don't need a huge surplus of people in the military, we wouldn't draft 50,000,000 people. The draft would be to fill certain slots, not prepare to invade Normandy. (Even in WWII we limited the number of divisions we were going to develop.)

We had roughly half the population in WW II, that we have now.  We had 16 million in uniform in WW II, so a real draft would involve putting 30 million into uniform.  But not all of those were, or would be, combat positions.  But realistically, a real war will last a day at most ... then nuclear winter.  There wouldn't even be time to staff the draft boards.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

We had roughly half the population in WW II, that we have now.  We had 16 million in uniform in WW II, so a real draft would involve putting 30 million into uniform.  But not all of those were, or would be, combat positions.  But realistically, a real war will last a day at most ... then nuclear winter.  There wouldn't even be time to staff the draft boards.

Yep, nine out of ten GIs in WWII didn't see combat. But you keep thinking we need a lot of people to do this, one out of ten. First off, that would be wildly expensive. Second, why would we do that?

[stromboli]

We don't need a huge surplus of people in the military, we wouldn't draft 50,000,000 people. The draft would be to fill certain slots, not prepare to invade Normandy. (Even in WWII we limited the number of divisions we were going to develop.)

We tend to think of draft during Vietnam, but a draft that incorporated US youth into programs that need developing that require cheap labor and bodies for a short duration would make sense. Also the pay back would be to fund their education all or in part with GI bill. That is how I got my degree. Done right, it could be a win-win proposition.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

We tend to think of draft during Vietnam, but a draft that incorporated US youth into programs that need developing that require cheap labor and bodies for a short duration would make sense. Also the pay back would be to fund their education all or in part with GI bill. That is how I got my degree. Done right, it could be a win-win proposition.

The first peace-time draft, 1940, was for one year active duty. Just enough time for basic competence with the more forgiving weapons of war. Today this would mean that the specialists could specialize and the troopers could troop. Some percentage of them will remain in the military, perhaps surprised at their choice but it would be an informed decision.

[Baruch]

Yep, nine out of ten GIs in WWII didn't see combat. But you keep thinking we need a lot of people to do this, one out of ten. First off, that would be wildly expensive. Second, why would we do that?

If you had to fight China + Russia in conventional terms ... you would need lots of infantry.  Just flying about bombing people ... like we did with ISIS ... doesn't get the job done.  Of course conventional war is a fantasy option.  Also when you go to war, cost is no object, corpses are.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

If you had to fight China + Russia in conventional terms ... you would need lots of infantry.  Just flying about bombing people ... like we did with ISIS ... doesn't get the job done.  Of course conventional war is a fantasy option.  Also when you go to war, cost is no object, corpses are.

"Never get involved in a land war in Asia."

[stromboli]

If you had to fight China + Russia in conventional terms ... you would need lots of infantry.  Just flying about bombing people ... like we did with ISIS ... doesn't get the job done.  Of course conventional war is a fantasy option.  Also when you go to war, cost is no object, corpses are.

Those of us who served know there is a lot of other incidental benefits to being in "a service". Being a boy from small town Utah, I gained more knowledge of the world in general from being in other time zones, other countries and mingling with people from other cultures. Far more so than I would have done serving a mission for the Mormon church, something I inadvertently avoided. I am a more well rounded person from being exposed to a wider world.

"Never get involved in a land war in Asia."

Lol. Great line from a great movie.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Those of us who served know there is a lot of other incidental benefits to being in "a service". Being a boy from small town Utah, I gained more knowledge of the world in general from being in other time zones, other countries and mingling with people from other cultures. Far more so than I would have done serving a mission for the Mormon church, something I inadvertently avoided. I am a more well rounded person from being exposed to a wider world.

In boot camp, 1969, half my company was from small towns in Indiana. The other half was from New York, mostly Harlem. This was not an accident.