The Regressive left

[FaithIsFilth]

As pissed as you are at the left, you would think you would be focusing your energy and disdain on the right.

Hell, if Trump becomes president you might end up being executed in the street for being trans. At least the left is raising transgenderism to the level of a norm in the public mind even if it is done in a self serving, backwards way.

The Republican should be expected to be horrible. More should be expected of the candidate on your own side (the left). People on the left giving Clinton types a pass and focusing their attention on the Republican is the reason you have a huge piece of shit like Clinton able to win the primaries in the first place. If people were more concerned with their own side's candidate than the other sides candidate, maybe someone like Bernie Sanders or someone far better than Sanders would have a chance, but instead because you want to put the focus on how much better Clinton is than Trump, you have liberals voting in the most right wing, neocon Democrat in a long time.

The other option is that you can not vote at all and let whatever happens, happen...

I'd vote third party. At least that way the blood wouldn't be on my hands.

[widdershins]

To be fair, back in 2002 when Hillary got booed for her stance on gay marriage my stance on gay marriage probably was different.  The country's stance certainly was.  I am very pro-rights now, whatever those rights may be, but I didn't always see it that way.  The country itself flip-flopped on the issue.  For that to happen some people have to have changed their minds.  Not to mention that a politician will NEVER "tell it like it is".  They tell it like they think you want to hear.  It's the nature of the beast.  You can't say with any certainty how she felt about gay marriage then or how she feels about it now.  People are stupid, easily distracted by meaningless token gestures, a fact which every politician is acutely aware of.  Is she evil because she was against gay marriage 14 years ago?  Am I?  If I now freely admit that I was wrong, that I was misinformed, that I was ignorant and bigoted but I'm trying to be better, am I still that homophobic asshat today?

For much of the rest of that, though, I can certainly see and share your frustration, on a variety of issues.  Whenever Bill Maher brings up the inherent violence in Islam itself there's always some prick who will respond as if he had said "All Muslims" instead of "Islam" and be completely and utterly incapable of seeing the very big difference.  And the whole "African American" shit got so stupid that at one point we didn't have any PC way to refer to black from, say, England.  Not to mention that we singled out an entire race (again) of Americans as somehow being "different" Americans; Americans, just not Americans "like we are", in a kind of "secondary" nature.

And while we disagree on exactly what the word "rights" means when it comes to transgender people, we both agree that something needs to be done immediately to protect transgender and gay people from what seems to be increasingly moving toward "enforced discrimination" by law.  Gays won a big victory recently, but there's still a long way to go before the word "equality" can be accurately used, and that's not even addressing transgenders.  Personally, I would like to see laws written in such a way that they never spell out specific groups who are protected, but instead just give rights to "people".  For instance, "two people" have the right to get married, not "two people, including people of the same sex" and not "two people, those two to be described as follows".  And if you have a business you cannot refuse service to "people", not "...based on race, gender, age, sexual orientation, appearance, social status..."  If a business wants to deny service they should show a compelling BUSINESS interest to do so.  For instance, I live around a lot of pig farms.  If they enter a restaurant for their lunch break, they generally don't shower and change first.  That can ruin an appetite.  Pig shit STINKS!  There's a compelling business interest to deny them service.  If you happen to live in Redneck County and a black guy walking in will clear out your restaurant, that's an issue with your customers being assholes, not an issue with your business.

[Deconvert]

What I think hurts the LGBTQ community's efforts to gain expectance and understanding is the chastising of allies when they misgender or use the improper pronoun. There are some people who do not entirely understand transgender people, but are making an honest effort to do so. So instead of being politely corrected in these situations, they may be embarrassed and ridiculed to the point where they will be less vocal in support, or possible remove their support altogether. Things like "Down with cis" don't help either. As a cis gendered, straight person, I become more and more disenfranchised with the LGBTQ movement when I see things like this plastered all over the Internet.

Also, I was recently called an "ableist" by one of these people (SJWs? Even though no one likes that term) - an able-bodied person because of my use of the word "stupid" when referring to Donald Trumps ideas. I took great offense and tried to explain the difference between calling a person stupid and calling their ideas stupid, but the mere use of the word was a "trigger" to people with learning disabilities according to this person. I then called this position "stupid", which they didn't find funny. :P

Bottom line, I'm tired of people using social issues as an opporunity to feel morally and ethically superior to others. This behavior hurts movements.

[DeltaEpsilon]

I think that we should accept them and treat them with equal rights, but most of these social justice warrior types are being extremely hyperbolic. Feminists often wine about how we created a society where virtually all men disrespect women. That is not the issue, most men do respect women very much, they problem is a small group of men that are harassing and abusing women that need to be called out.

Lots of the SJW types are blatant hypocrites, they claim to be fighting for freedom and equality for all, but that is most certainly not true. Freedom of speech is a very important thing and they are trying to take that away from us an example of this can be found in the post above mine.

[Mermaid]

I think that we should accept them and treat them with equal rights, but most of these social justice warrior types are being extremely hyperbolic. Feminists often wine about how we created a society where virtually all men disrespect women. That is not the issue, most men do respect women very much, they problem is a small group of men that are harassing and abusing women that need to be called out.

Lots of the SJW types are blatant hypocrites, they claim to be fighting for freedom and equality for all, but that is most certainly not true. Freedom of speech is a very important thing and they are trying to take that away from us an example of this can be found in the post above mine.

There are extremists on both sides of this fence.

[marom1963]

A perfect 5/7, would laugh again.


Serious answer though; the alternative to gender fluid is that we all adhere to our gender roles, and there are only three genders in American culture(M/F/T). That is not a healthy system, and one that is actually pretty limited compared to most of the world's average 4-7 recognized genders.

The entire gender system is a cultural construct and not a biological, scientific truth, so we cant act like they are some set in stone things.

Just out of curiosity - what would the other genders be? Male, female, transgender - and what else?

[marom1963]

As pissed as you are at the left, you would think you would be focusing your energy and disdain on the right.

Hell, if Trump becomes president you might end up being executed in the street for being trans. At least the left is raising transgenderism to the level of a norm in the public mind even if it is done in a self serving, backwards way.

Where do you get this picture of Trump? He's from New York City. I've been watching Trump for decades. He used to hang around w/Andy Warhol. I doubt that he'd have transgendered people slaughtered. He's always presented himself as a typical New Yorker. He's not like that. He's a tough business man, yes - but, damn, he's never been a gay basher or a fundamentalist or real misogynist (his organization is loaded w/high-powered women). And he's not a snob. I don't like his politics, but I'm not going to say untrue things about him.

[Deconvert]

Just out of curiosity - what would the other genders be? Male, female, transgender - and what else?

I suppose other genders, if we have to use gender terminology already accepted, they would be "tom-boy" and "sissy boy"? In other words, gender fluidity says that there is no one label that matches everyone and anyone who doesn't live up to the expectations under that label or gender role is considered the lesser.

There are very "masculine" type women who are completely heterosexual (tom-boys?) and "effeminate" hetero men (sissies?). There are also "macho" gay men (Bears?) and feminine gay women (lipstick lesbians?). Do we have to have a label for every variance in between? Sex and gender are different things. Sex is the biological X or Y chromosome which can even be obfuscated by intersexed people born with XXY, for instance. Gender refers to the roles a person takes on which have been assigned to men and women culturally. But most people pick a little from column A and some from column B and these days the roles are less defined so our labels should be too? I like to use the "It's Pat" example from SNL to show that not everyone presents as one or the other gender. It's funny but poignant skit about androgyny. People are really uncomforable when they can't identify someone's sex or other things they feel they should be able to know just by looking. People will be more comfortable if they know it's okay to ask and if SJWs stop taking offense when someone assumes wrong or is ignorant of gender non-conformity rather than politely disabusing them of their assumptions regarding gender.

It isn't unreasonable to assume someone is male or female based on cultural standards, but people should be open to changing pronouns when asked and respecting a persons simple wish to be called what they want. I don't think this is unreasonable. What's unreasonable is to ask that you know ahead of time what they should be called and to ridicule you if you pick the wrong thing.

[marom1963]

Thank you.

[FaithIsFilth]

As pissed as you are at the left, you would think you would be focusing your energy and disdain on the right.

Hell, if Trump becomes president you might end up being executed in the street for being trans.

lol Trump just came out in support of transgender people using the bathroom of their choice. He says he has no issue with trans people, yet he might end up executing them in the streets?

[Jannabear]

What I think hurts the LGBTQ community's efforts to gain expectance and understanding is the chastising of allies when they misgender or use the improper pronoun. There are some people who do not entirely understand transgender people, but are making an honest effort to do so. So instead of being politely corrected in these situations, they may be embarrassed and ridiculed to the point where they will be less vocal in support, or possible remove their support altogether. Things like "Down with cis" don't help either. As a cis gendered, straight person, I become more and more disenfranchised with the LGBTQ movement when I see things like this plastered all over the Internet.

Also, I was recently called an "ableist" by one of these people (SJWs? Even though no one likes that term) - an able-bodied person because of my use of the word "stupid" when referring to Donald Trumps ideas. I took great offense and tried to explain the difference between calling a person stupid and calling their ideas stupid, but the mere use of the word was a "trigger" to people with learning disabilities according to this person. I then called this position "stupid", which they didn't find funny. :P

Bottom line, I'm tired of people using social issues as an opporunity to feel morally and ethically superior to others. This behavior hurts movements.

I think there is an argument to be made for why intentionally using the wrong pronouns to refer to a transgender person is shitty (unless it's that stupid ze shit), but I don't think that if someone accidently misgenders me that I should have an anuresm, if someone accidentally misgenders me I will respectfully ask to be referred to as what I am, and if they say "ok I'll try" then I'm fine, but if they say "no I wont" then I tell them to go fuck themself.

[Jannabear]

I suppose other genders, if we have to use gender terminology already accepted, they would be "tom-boy" and "sissy boy"? In other words, gender fluidity says that there is no one label that matches everyone and anyone who doesn't live up to the expectations under that label or gender role is considered the lesser.

There are very "masculine" type women who are completely heterosexual (tom-boys?) and "effeminate" hetero men (sissies?). There are also "macho" gay men (Bears?) and feminine gay women (lipstick lesbians?). Do we have to have a label for every variance in between? Sex and gender are different things. Sex is the biological X or Y chromosome which can even be obfuscated by intersexed people born with XXY, for instance. Gender refers to the roles a person takes on which have been assigned to men and women culturally. But most people pick a little from column A and some from column B and these days the roles are less defined so our labels should be too? I like to use the "It's Pat" example from SNL to show that not everyone presents as one or the other gender. It's funny but poignant skit about androgyny. People are really uncomforable when they can't identify someone's sex or other things they feel they should be able to know just by looking. People will be more comfortable if they know it's okay to ask and if SJWs stop taking offense when someone assumes wrong or is ignorant of gender non-conformity rather than politely disabusing them of their assumptions regarding gender.

It isn't unreasonable to assume someone is male or female based on cultural standards, but people should be open to changing pronouns when asked and respecting a persons simple wish to be called what they want. I don't think this is unreasonable. What's unreasonable is to ask that you know ahead of time what they should be called and to ridicule you if you pick the wrong thing.

Gender is a moshpit of cultural, religious, interpersonal, and neurological factors.
What makes someone male or female regarding their gender is primarily influenced by their neurology, then it affects how they behave and how people perceive them.

[Hydra009]

I think there is an argument to be made for why intentionally using the wrong pronouns to refer to a transgender person is shitty (unless it's that stupid ze shit), but I don't think that if someone accidently misgenders me that I should have an anuresm, if someone accidentally misgenders me I will respectfully ask to be referred to as what I am, and if they say "ok I'll try" then I'm fine, but if they say "no I wont" then I tell them to go fuck themself.

Agreed. I'm a straight cis guy and I've gotten ma'am a couple times and rolled with it.  Someone else having a brain fart.  Doesn't bother me one bit.  Mildly funny, actually.

But when someone does it in an intentionally insulting way, like Tommy Sotomayor saying he/she over and over in reference to a transsexual when he knows her gender, it's pretty screwed up.

[drunkenshoe]

Hillary Clinton, Caitlyn Jenner, the problem of gender fluidity and who is calling whom what on in tumblr. The consequences of the 'regressive left' in the USA. Unfortunately, it's not just an angry kid, but majority of the so called secular democrat youth and adults see the politics in their country along these lines, because virtually there is nothing out there about real issues. Social media sites and vlogs of angry individuals, SJWs groups, tv shows.

Using any American politician's name and Left in the same sentence is enough to get that Trump or Clinton -any democrat or republican- will make no difference in the office in the end. Everything is just a hyped up show, but nothing else. How on earth is it posisble that someone who is able read and write -really nothing else is required- can define some part of USA domestic politics as left? How?

Over all, in reality there is actually only one ideology; far right and one good and one bad cop; two parties. Depends on which side you are looking from. And there is this fixed menu of 'issues'; that is being heated and served to people over and over again. And it will make no impact for the very big majority of the population's life doesn't matter which one wins.

What is really accomplished by the elections beats me at this point. Even with Sanders. What wil be the difference between Sanders and Trump for example?

Let's make up some imaginary leftist candidate. Do you really think that there is a smallest possibility that a politician of the sort could even be heard in the USA? If someone tried to get a microphone and made a real politically left opposition, nothing he said would be acknowledged or even heard. If he got persistent and loud at some point he would get death threats or get attacked in some way. There is only a few things and one way to talk for politicians in the USA. And you guys are talking about political correctness of politicians?

[Baruch]

lol Trump just came out in support of transgender people using the bathroom of their choice. He says he has no issue with trans people, yet he might end up executing them in the streets?

It is OK to execute people in the streets, as long as you aren't a bigot about it.