C'est moi!

[Brian37]

Welcome.

But what exactly are you not sure about? Believing in invisible friends(by any name) is as silly as believing in Santa.

There is no evidence of cognition outside of biological evolution. Claims of deities are merely human inventions.

In any case, welcome once again. Be sure to barbecue kittens, record your footbol game without the league's permission, and rip the tags of your mattress.  :P

[Bibliofagus]

Fidel and aitm are in it together. You need well over 50 yards of distance.

On the numbers thing:
http://jubal.westnet.com/hyperdiscordia ... babel.html

And welcome.

[Lolilla]

Welcome.

But what exactly are you not sure about? Believing in invisible friends(by any name) is as silly as believing in Santa.

There is no evidence of cognition outside of biological evolution. Claims of deities are merely human inventions.

In any case, welcome once again. Be sure to barbecue kittens, record your footbol game without the league's permission, and rip the tags of your mattress.  :P

I am not sure about these number coincidences. I can't help it but I find them fascinating. Although I really hate that.

[PopeyesPappy]

But nevertheless there are a few things about Islam that make me hesitate a bit, like for example this: Quran and the Moon

Might as well take a look a look at The Bible Code, War and Peace and Moby Dick.

[Plu]

Have you taken mathematics or statistics classes? If this fascinates you, taking a few extra hours of mathematics will probably cure it. Stuff like factorials and combinations will show pretty quickly why finding stuff like this isn't extraordinary; the number of possible combinations rises insanely fast.

(A random example; if you have 100 different numbers, and you multiply any random two, you already have up to 10.000 possible outcomes. If you add multiply any random three numbers, you can get up to 1.000.000 different outcomes. The Quran has 6.346 verses, which means that just from multiplying together (ignoring all the other mathematical options) three verse numbers (ignoring, again, all the other ways you can find numbers, like number of words, letters in words, number of occurences, etc) you can get to up to 255,564,309,736 different outcomes.

(Actual amount is a bit lower, because of equality in outcomes (8 x 8 x 12 == 2 x 4 x 96, for example); but then again actual number of reachable solutions is far higher because of the sheer number of numbers and operators you can use)

The odds that you can find three numbers that, when you apply a mathematical operator to them, come out to a predetermined number between 1 and 1000 are practically 100%. Since they already know the number they want to get to (from an actually valid source), it's just a matter of trying options until you come out to something that comes close to what you want to say. And then pretend that is was "predestined", when really they just had to piece stuff together until they found something that sounds nice and then ignore the billions of alternative calculations that mean just as little.

[Lolilla]

But nevertheless there are a few things about Islam that make me hesitate a bit, like for example this: Quran and the Moon

Might as well take a look a look at The Bible Code, War and Peace and Moby Dick.

I know that, of course. Well I don't know, but for me the things with these numbers seem to be a bit more fascinating than the whole letter-matrix-without spaces between words sort of thing. But maybe I am wrong with this, I don't know. It just amazes me that it is even right that there are ... letters between the word moon and earth and that there fits exactly ... times the word moon like it is in reality. Well, aproximately.  
Would be interesting to know how long it took them to find this "miracle".

[Plu]

But maybe I am wrong with this, I don't know.

You are. Try it for yourself. Take a random article, take a random number, and start puzzling a way to get the number from the article. It shouldn't be too hard, especially for smaller numbers.

Would be interesting to know how long it took them to find this "miracle".

1500 years, since that's how long the book has been available. And they've been searching for "miracles" ever since.

[Lolilla]

Have you taken mathematics or statistics classes? If this fascinates you, taking a few extra hours of mathematics will probably cure it. Stuff like factorials and combinations will show pretty quickly why finding stuff like this isn't extraordinary; the number of possible combinations rises insanely fast.

(A random example; if you have 100 different numbers, and you multiply any random two, you already have up to 10.000 possible outcomes. If you add multiply any random three numbers, you can get up to 1.000.000 different outcomes. The Quran has 6.346 verses, which means that just from multiplying together (ignoring all the other mathematical options) three verse numbers (ignoring, again, all the other ways you can find numbers, like number of words, letters in words, number of occurences, etc) you can get to up to 255,564,309,736 different outcomes.

(Actual amount is a bit lower, because of equality in outcomes (8 x 8 x 12 == 2 x 4 x 96, for example); but then again actual number of reachable solutions is far higher because of the sheer number of numbers and operators you can use)

The odds that you can find three numbers that, when you apply a mathematical operator to them, come out to a predetermined number between 1 and 1000 are practically 100%. Since they already know the number they want to get to (from an actually valid source), it's just a matter of trying options until you come out to something that comes close to what you want to say. And then pretend that is was "predestined", when really they just had to piece stuff together until they found something that sounds nice and then ignore the billions of alternative calculations that mean just as little.

Well, of course I did take mathematics classes.    In Germany every student has to, even up to the German "Abitur" (corresponding to the A-Levels I guess). Just recently we also did all this statistic things, but not these things with numbers. Just the boring testing of hypothesis. :D Which reminds me that I should propably be studying right now for it as I have the exams in two weeks...damn... :rollin:

But thanks, I had't thought about the number thing in that way. Seems you could "calculate" anything within the Quran - if you know what to look for after looking it up in Wikipedia.  

[Plu]

But thanks, I had't thought about the number thing in that way. Seems you could "calculate" anything within the Quran - if you know what to look for after looking it up in Wikipedia.

There's a reason that all these "discoveries" of knowledge in the Quran always come after the discovery of the same thing by science ;)

Good luck on your exams.

[aitm]

In about 30 years when I am around 85 ish, I will make the following prophesy:

And in the days fore midnight madness, in a land hot and damp, of large lizards and tiny nats, that on night not yet day, the earth will open up and swallow whole one who lays upon his bed, and his home to follow. When this happens surely we are on the last days before the new beginning. Pray dear souls lest this happens to you.



see how easy that is?







http://news.sky.com/story/1059405/sinkh ... -continues

[Lolilla]

But thanks, I had't thought about the number thing in that way. Seems you could "calculate" anything within the Quran - if you know what to look for after looking it up in Wikipedia.

There's a reason that all these "discoveries" of knowledge in the Quran always come after the discovery of the same thing by science ;)

Good luck on your exams.

Thanks!

By the way, who of you knows Tim Minchin? I soo love him! My favourite is Ten foot c*ck and a few hundred Virgins. But I think everything he wrote is just great!
//http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9uIMR8yCPg&list=PL6AFAD809BA2E60FC

[Plu]

Tim Minchin is brilliant. Most of his work is really good, I'm not sure if I even have a favorite.

Although perhaps Dark Side. It's definately one of his best.

[Wallflower]

Plu's right about the statistics thing. It's a really refreshing class to dive into.
In general, my advice would be to keep chugging away at learning everything you can about what you're having trouble with - be voracious! The non-fiction section is a good place to start: Get a history, especially of the Roman empire, the surrounding area, and all the other religions that started in that region. That was, for me at least, a big eye opener. Anyone can relate to a Mary and a Joe. You're forced to look at the whole thing much more analytically when you're reading about ancient civilizations.