Youth Group Services Disguised as Club Meeting at Public School

[Deconvert]

Hi,
I'm new to the forums and this is my first post, and the reason I came here.

I'm a Biology teacher who takes the state mandated instruction of Evolution seriously unlike some of my co-workers. One In particular refuses to teach it because she "doesn't believe in it". I am baffled as to how one can earn a BA in Biological Sciences and hold on to a young-earth creationist belief. This person has been trying to kill me with kindness and knows I'm an atheist in need of Jesus. She doesn't preach to me or anything at least.

So the thing about not teaching evolution really bothers me, but whatever. The thing that is happening now is what I feel like reporting to the district. We have a Christian club on campus that she sponsors in her room - across the hall from me. This I have no problem with. I believe in the rights of students to have differing opinions and to have a club that represents their religion as long as the same rules apply to other faiths and nones and as long as no discrimination occurs. For the past year they have been meeting regularly in her room. Not only that, but they have been (I think I was her) inviting a youth pastor to come on campus every single Friday at lunch to speak to them. I was pretty sure there was some legal gray area activities going on, but I decided to just close my door so I wouldn't have to hear his loud "youth pastor" obnoxious voice - you I know the one. But last week the music teacher who is new to teaching and probably came from working in music department of a church, brought some more gospel singers from his church and set up a bunch of loud equipment and they all proceeded to have worship service. Now I know it is illegal for a teacher to be involved in a religious activity at a public school. We are allowed to attend to supervise, but we aren't allowed to                           participate. Also, I discovered since this event occurred that the pastor runs the entire lunch meeting like a youth group service. The students take no part in organizing or conducting club matters on their own. This is also illegal. In order to have a religious club on campus, it has to be run by students and outside visitors are not allowed to come on a regular basis and run meetings.

I am thinking about taking this to the district, but I'm not sure if it's worth it since they will probably figure out it is me since this other teacher knows I'm an atheist. They will just think I'm one of those party-pooper atheists who try to spoil I all the fun! I hate being in this position.

[TomFoolery]

I appreciate and sympathize with your predicament. Any time someone stands up for keeping public schools and religion separate, the general public consensus at best tends to think you're being oversensitive and at worst thinks you're part of an organized conspiracy to criminalize religion.

I'm currently finishing my second undergrad in biology and I remember a few students scoffing at the idea of having to learn about evolution because they "just didn't believe in it." It's nice in college, where you can take it or leave it, but you are required to learn it and educators aren't required to acknowledge fairy tales as a legitimate theory of how we came to be. What I found interesting was the girl who sat in front of me the whole semester was the firmest of Bible thumpers and very vocal about her beliefs, and as we learned about evolution in depth (natural selection, adaptive radiation, homologous structures, mutations, genetic drift, etc.) she readily accepted that all of those things made sense and always insisted she wholeheartedly supported science, but still flat out refused to believe such processes could have led to life as we know it.

In my mind, that's a bit like saying, "I believe in mathematics, and accept that 2+2=4 and that 4+4=8, but I just can never accept that 2+2+2+2=8, because my understanding of religion doesn't allow for me to make that concession to mathematics."

[AllRight]

That's quite a predicament... I thought I had it bad where admitting I'm a democrat gets me treated like a leper in my office. Ultimately you have to do what is in your best interest.

[Solomon Zorn]

Teachers who won't teach the theory of evolution, are depriving their students of one of the most important areas of knowledge. One that gives us a chance to really understand the world, without rationalizing from some book of myths.

I feel public school is the wrong place for a religious gathering, even if it is student led. It's not the same as a club. Religious youth groups are the front line of a crusade, to win the minds of the next generation, for Christ. Christians invariably turn a meeting into a worship service, and preach rather than encourage.

[widdershins]

The problem is that if you give these people an inch they'll take the whole damned road.  It won't end with this.  In fact, by this story, it has been steadily progressing.  They are seeing just how much they can get away with and trying to take it to the limit.  It has been allowed to go on for too long already and they are likely actively trying to sabotage themselves now so that they can play the persecuted littler martyrs for God.

I don't go into their church and start telling everyone how Jesus is just a story and there's proof that evolution is real.  But they don't have the same respect for us.

Now, of course, I believe in the student's rights to follow their beliefs, even in school.  But school is not a church.  It is a place of learning, not a place of worship.  They desperately want into schools, specifically, because young minds are easier to seed with stories of magical mysticism.  At this point they are likely trying to make as much noise as possible.  They think they're fighting the devil or some dumb shit by making sure everyone can hear them.  The reality is that they are disrespecting anyone and everyone who doesn't hold their beliefs while demanding that everyone else respect them.

Personally, I think you should report this to the Freedom from Religion Foundation.  But do keep in mind, it WILL likely get back to you, and if it does your coworkers will be the least of your worries.  Jessica Ahlquist started getting death and rape threats when she stood up for herself in her high school.  And that is EXACTLY why it needs to be reported now.  These fanatical assholes are so intolerant of the rights of everyone else that they were sending threats to rape a 16 year old girl who disagreed with them.  Sooner or later, these people will get reported.  Nobody is going to put up with that shit forever.  And that's what they want.  They need to pretend that the world is out to get them, so they push and push until someone pushes back, then fall to the ground flailing, pretending to have been violently attacked.  Either a teacher reports this or a student will, eventually, because that's what they're pushing for so that they can feel the persecution they so desperately desire.  It's like a drug to them.  They need to feel persecuted so that they can feel that they're doing enough for their God.  And there will be repercussions.  There will be threats.  But no 16 year old girl should have to be afraid that random nutbags are going to hunt her down and rape her violently because that's the punishment they think she deserves for not wanting to be exposed to their religion.  A responsible adult should have taken that bullet then and should take it now.

[gentle_dissident]

I've seen some bullying behavior personally from these "leaders".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuZ3EVNfjfo

[Poison Tree]

Hello Deconvert! You may want to consider contacting  your local ACLU, Americans United for Separation of Church and State, Secular Coalition for America or some similar group. I'm sure that they will know much more about the legal issues and how to respond then us random internet people.

[Deconvert]

Thanks for the responses. I've been on spring break so I haven't been back in several days.

I did leave a message with my local district officer to voice my concerns. She hasn't returned my call. I plan to call again after the break. Best case scenario, she notifies the principal to make some changes because the district policy is that teachers are not allowed to participate in religious meetings on campus and that outsiders are not allowed to run meetings as is stated in the law.

I did start an entry for requesting the FFRF to look into the matter, but before clicking "send", I decided to talk to the district first. My district, LAUSD, is pretty progressive and hopefully they will see things my way while maintaining my anonymity. If not, it's back the the FFRF page.

Now that I've just watched the "God is NOT Dead 2" trailer, I'm eager to get my "Christian persecution" on!

[aitm]

you can always complain anonymous as a student if you wan who feels pressured to attend by her teacher who is also a sunday school teacher…..   ;)

[Baruch]

Thanks for the responses. I've been on spring break so I haven't been back in several days.

I did leave a message with my local district officer to voice my concerns. She hasn't returned my call. I plan to call again after the break. Best case scenario, she notifies the principal to make some changes because the district policy is that teachers are not allowed to participate in religious meetings on campus and that outsiders are not allowed to run meetings as is stated in the law.

I did start an entry for requesting the FFRF to look into the matter, but before clicking "send", I decided to talk to the district first. My district, LAUSD, is pretty progressive and hopefully they will see things my way while maintaining my anonymity. If not, it's back the the FFRF page.

Now that I've just watched the "God is NOT Dead 2" trailer, I'm eager to get my "Christian persecution" on!

Every work environment is a political environment, especially schools.  Tread deliberately but carefully.

[Deconvert]

Called and left a message 3 times with 2 different people. 2 Weeks and no response. I think it's time to contact the FFRF. It's funny, 2 podcasts I listen to specifically mentioned the Equal Access Act and school employees and guests not participating in religious club meetings.

A new counselor at my school has an FSM bumper ornament on her car so I don't feel as alone. 😊

[Baruch]

Called and left a message 3 times with 2 different people. 2 Weeks and no response. I think it's time to contact the FFRF. It's funny, 2 podcasts I listen to specifically mentioned the Equal Access Act and school employees and guests not participating in religious club meetings.

A new counselor at my school has an FSM bumper ornament on her car so I don't feel as alone. 😊

The most common way for managers to deal with problems, is to hide under their desks, not answer the phone, not return an email.  That is why they are paid the big bucks.

[Deconvert]

I'm thinking that if I call and pretend to be a parent then somebody will care. Seeing as I'm just a lowly employee of the district, they'd rather not deal with me. Pretend to be a litigious parent, and I may get some attention for sure.

[kilodelta]

I wouldn't use deception. If anything, this may bring you into the spot light. So, keeping yourself above any real ethical or legal violations is a must. Don't give them a valid excuse to take any action against you. Keep your nose clean.

Examine the leadership, from county up to state if needed, and see if there would actually be anyone that would sympathize. Then, get in contact with them. Google is a great tool.

[Deconvert]

I was being facetious. I wouldn't really pretend to be a parent. Just commenting on the nature of school districts. They only act in these situations when threatened with a lawsuit.

I'm going to try the main district office and complain about the inaction of the local district next.