Ye Greate US Mass Shooting thread

[Gawdzilla Sama]

As Weinberg once said, only religion can compel good people to do bad things. 

Money, power, lust, envy, hate...

[SGOS]

I'm trying to remember a case of a Muslim carrying out a mass murder who was just a nice average guy wanting to live a life of tolerance and peace.  You know, one who's motives were not driven by the Quran.  Accurate or not, it's one thing to say "Most Muslims just want peace" (the latest poll today puts that belief at 45% for American voters, with Republicans at 60% and Democrats at 30%), but to assume a Muslim who commits mass murder is not a terrorist, wouldn't be a good bet, IMO.  Innocent until proven guilty is the same as guilty until proven innocent, both make unwarranted assumptions prior to the facts.  In jurisprudence, innocent until guilty makes sense because it guards against the unjustified incarceration or capital punishment of an innocent.  But in determining odds or just normal speculation, I'd bet heavy on a religious motive when a Muslim commits mass murder, beheads a journalist, or stones a woman.  I don't have a problem with speculating either.  Almost everyone does it (come on, admit it) and the right to speculate is a Constitutional right as far as I know.

But in this case, the facts came to light within a day after the first speculation showed up, although I wouldn't exactly call a prediction of Islamic terrorism rocket science in this case, so I'll probably not go out of my way to congratulate the first person in the forum who got it right.  Anyway, I was already thinking it before anyone posted it.

[Baruch]

If the authorities just knew what everyone was up to (hearing me NSA?) ... then they could pre-crime stuff for shoplifting, not just terrorism.  Arguing semantics is pretty much mental masturbation.  If you say that the San Bernardino thing was just two crazy people married to each other ... that might be too selective, and if you say that all immigrants or all Muslims are evil ... that is probably too general.  You choose the first alternative for police work ... unless the police are really out to rob, rape and murder everyone.  You choose the second alternative (extreme) if you are psyching up the public for a war.  As a peaceful person, I naturally distrust the second ... and Pr126.

[Baruch]

There is some merit for transparency. In this case, people get to see how "normal" people were supposedly living when in actuality, they were planning mass murder - call it the new voyeurism. What's striking, or perhaps not, about this case is that not even the mother nor the sister knew what Farouk was up to. Not even a sign of distress a day or hours before the attack.  As Weinberg once said, only religion can compel good people to do bad things. It's a sad state of affairs that the media don't repeat these wise words publicly.

Columbine HS.  The parents didn't know.  Since their kids are dead, we can always blame the parents ... because we are assholes.

[The Skeletal Atheist]

There is some merit for transparency. In this case, people get to see how "normal" people were supposedly living when in actuality, they were planning mass murder - call it the new voyeurism. What's striking, or perhaps not, about this case is that not even the mother nor the sister knew what Farouk was up to. Not even a sign of distress a day or hours before the attack.  As Weinberg once said, only religion can compel good people to do bad things. It's a sad state of affairs that the media don't repeat these wise words publicly.

It's not that transparency isn't merited, it's that the apartment was an active crime scene. The media just fucked the crime scene in the interest of getting another story to feed people. Any potential evidence is now tainted.

[josephpalazzo]

It's not that transparency isn't merited, it's that the apartment was an active crime scene. The media just fucked the crime scene in the interest of getting another story to feed people. Any potential evidence is now tainted.

Before they let the people in, the investigators had already combed the place from to wall to wall, so I don't think much will be lost. Anyway, both terrorists died so there's no one to prosecute.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Before they let the people in, the investigators had already combed the place from to wall to wall, so I don't think much will be lost. Anyway, both terrorists died so there's no one to prosecute.

Hey, Allah might be hiding in there someplace.

[pr126]

Hey, Allah might be hiding in there someplace.

Nope, Allah is in the Kaaba. Why do you think every Muslim must prostrate toward Mekka?

Here it is:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Baruch]

While the Black Rock is interesting ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLxb7aI--fA

This is supposed to be the real thing.  Seems much like the Jewish Temple 2000 years ago ... so I can hardly object.  The inner chamber of the Herodian Temple was supposed to be empty.  The Seraphim/Cherubim and Ark were long gone.  Of course the Hajj is much like the insane pilgrimages to Jerusalem.  I do enjoy Arabic singing.  Of course Mecca and Medinah have been made into tourist traps, just like Jerusalem ;-)  This is very old, goes back to Babylonia and Sumeria and Old Egypt.

I find this less disturbing than the open tombs of Lenin and Mao.

[mauricio]

Money, power, lust, envy, hate...

the point of the quote is that religion (though more specifically self gratifying delusional and dogmatic thinking) unlike other motivators will make you be able to do bad things while believing yourself to be righteous, think about the crusades: pillaging and raping Saracens imbued in holy fervor.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

the point of the quote is that religion (though more specifically self gratifying delusional and dogmatic thinking) unlike other motivators will make you be able to do bad things while believing yourself to be righteous, think about the crusades pillaging and raping Saracens imbued in holy fervor.

And I was suggesting that the other motivators aren't that far off.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Nope, Allah is in the Kaaba. Why do you think every Muslim must prostrate toward Mekka?

Here it is:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Muhammed originally prayed toward Jerusalem.

[The Skeletal Atheist]

Nope, Allah is in the Kaaba. Why do you think every Muslim must prostrate toward Mekka?

Here it is:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

So, Allah is a big pussy?

[pr126]

So, Allah is a big pussy?

Allah is actually the projected mental image of Muhammad.
When Allah speaks in the Quran, it is in reality Muhammads fears and desires in written form.
Allah is just a sock puppet of insane Mo.

[Baruch]

Allah is actually the projected mental image of Muhammad.
When Allah speaks in the Quran, it is in reality Muhammads fears and desires in written form.
Allah is just a sock puppet of insane Mo.

Yes and know.  Allah as an object of worship, existed before, in the minds of Arabs and under other names, among quite a few other people.

Muhammad, while alive, had his Allah as a sock puppet.  Muhammad continues to influence Muslims thru the Quran and Hadith.  However I give people alive today more credit ... they aren't helpless zombies programmed by Islam.  For a modern Muslim, their Allah is their sock puppet too.  Just as Christians frequently see the same Jesus they see in the mirror each morning.