Merged Topic - Historical Reliability of the Gospels

[aitm]

The Text of the New Testament is Accurate

Upon finding out the whore Mary was with child.
"Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily."


Yeah, first chapter in your whack-a-doo NT babble;

The OT demands the whore be stoned to death, so he ignored the law, this makes him just?
So ignoring gods law is now considered the just thing to do?

So the NT admits that god is unjust.


LOL..yeah,,preach on brother... LOLOL

[Randy Carson]

Does anyone have anything further to add to the discussion of the OP? If not, I'm ready to wrap up my participation in this thread.

SUMMATION

The Bible we have today is a reliable reconstruction of the original autograph manuscripts. Despite the existence of variants found in the many copies of the manuscripts, we know with a high degree of accuracy and confidence what the authors wrote, and significantly, no Christian doctrine may be called into question as the result of the existence of these manuscript variations.

[Randy Carson]

That was what the pagans said too, when you pulled down their temples and killed their priests ;-(

Pagans have been known to kill Catholic priests, also. But yeah, we won the battle for the hearts and minds of the people the world over.

Damn...we must have a good story to tell.

[Baruch]

You didn't win any points with the folks here ... in this thread anyway.  So is your Ginsu sufficiently sharp?  And will you have to commit seppuku if you don't get a convert?  I hope not.

[aitm]

I don't need to explain it away, I can explain it.

God Said To Make Them

People who oppose religious statuary forget about the many passages where the Lord commands the making of statues. For example: "And you shall make two cherubim of gold [i.e., two gold statues of angels]; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece of the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be" (Ex. 25:18â€"20).

David gave Solomon the plan "for the altar of incense made of refined gold, and its weight; also his plan for the golden chariot of the cherubim that spread their wings and covered the ark of the covenant of the Lord. All this he made clear by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all, all the work to be done according to the plan" (1 Chr. 28:18â€"19). David’s plan for the temple, which the biblical author tells us was "by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all," included statues of angels.

Similarly Ezekiel 41:17â€"18 describes graven (carved) images in the idealized temple he was shown in a vision, for he writes, "On the walls round about in the inner room and [on] the nave were carved likenesses of cherubim."
 
The Religious Uses of Images

During a plague of serpents sent to punish the Israelites during the exodus, God told Moses to "make [a statue of] a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it shall live. So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live" (Num. 21:8â€"9).

One had to look at the bronze statue of the serpent to be healed, which shows that statues could be used ritually, not merely as religious decorations.

Catholics use statues, paintings, and other artistic devices to recall the person or thing depicted. Just as it helps to remember one’s mother by looking at her photograph, so it helps to recall the example of the saints by looking at pictures of them. Catholics also use statues as teaching tools. In the early Church they were especially useful for the instruction of the illiterate. Many Protestants have pictures of Jesus and other Bible pictures in Sunday school for teaching children. Catholics also use statues to commemorate certain people and events, much as Protestant churches have three-dimensional nativity scenes at Christmas.

Do Catholics Worship Statues?
http://www.catholic.com/library/Do_Catholics_Worship_Statues.asp

I love how the xians promote the truth of the NT by claiming the rules of the OT was just for the jews and not meant for gentiles, then use the OT to justify the NT. LOLOLOL,,,,by god this babbliest is such a cherry picker I wonder if he ever found a wife?

[Baruch]

Pagans have been known to kill Catholic priests, also. But yeah, we won the battle for the hearts and minds of the people the world over.

Damn...we must have a good story to tell.

Yes, we will know you by your love ;-(  You won the political leaders, who told their people to convert.  There was very little persuasion involved, other than what an authoritarian society already provided.  Orthodox Christianity did the same in E Europe.  Once people were able to read on their own, they tended to become Protestant or secular.

[Randy Carson]

Upon finding out the whore Mary was with child.
"Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily."


Yeah, first chapter in your whack-a-doo NT babble;

The OT demands the whore be stoned to death, so he ignored the law, this makes him just?
So ignoring gods law is now considered the just thing to do?

So the NT admits that god is unjust.


LOL..yeah,,preach on brother... LOLOL

Off Topic.

[aitm]

Off Topic.

LOLOL…go ahead boy..wrap up your topic…..The text of the NT is accurate…..yeah. you sure proved it…..to yourself

[gentle_dissident]

Off Topic.

Why is anyone responding to Randy's topics? Are we countering due to the chance there are some young historians out there who are on the fence? If you youngins are watching this parley, could you say "Hi!"?

[Randy Carson]

LOLOL…go ahead boy..wrap up your topic…..The text of the NT is accurate…..yeah. you sure proved it…..to yourself

If you have a counter argument or some evidence suggesting I'm wrong in my OP, I'm eager to hear it.

[Baruch]

Why is anyone responding to Randy's topics? Are we countering due to the chance there are some young historians out there who are on the fence? If you youngins are watching this parley, could you say "Hi!"?

Don't know about you, but Randy is a target rich environment for my version of "Whack A Mole".

[reasonist]

Does anyone have anything further to add to the discussion of the OP? If not, I'm ready to wrap up my participation in this thread.

[gentle_dissident]

Don't know about you, but Randy is a target rich environment for my version of "Whack A Mole".

OK, If I had to say something to Randy, I would say, "I'm sorry you're wasting your life. I hope you don't convince others. If you do stop playing mind games, I hope you are able to look back in knowledge and not regret. Above all, please don't introduce religion as a reality to children. They are vulnerable in knowledge and emotion."

[Mike Cl]

You are ignorant, Mike. Catholics don't worships statues anymore than you make love to a photograph of your wife in your wallet.

Your photograph and our statues are visual aids. Nothing more.

We don't worship relics, either. But I have a feeling you aren't interested in learning actual Catholic doctrine, so we can wrap this up.

Catholic doctrine.  Yeah, I'm aware of it.  The deeper I delved into it the most disgusted I have become.  You have brought nothing new to discuss on this board.  All you have proven is that you are a dupe of the Catholic church--and a willing one.  You change words within the bible to suit your fancy.  And no, I am not ignorant.  You are willfully ignorant and most likely will remain such.  Visual aids! :))))))))))))))  What the hell are idols????   What a blind and faithful fool you are. 

[leo]

All of those words you chose ARE of human origin and we use them every day. Moreover, if a word is in the Bible, it is already a part of our knowledge since people study the Bible very, er, religiously. Thus, any words that have been used by us in the past do not meet your criteria.  Further, if I give you some words for things that have not yet occurred in history (like Armageddon), then you will dismiss them as mere religious nonsense and non-qualifiers. So, you will only accept words that have only very recently entered into our lexicon...like within your lifetime, for example. That doesn't strike me as a very reasonable request. And it's arbitrary.

What you are overlooking (intentionally and not innocently) is that there are hundreds of prophecies that were fulfilled by Jesus in ways that the prophets could not possibly have foreseen. These could only have come from divine inspiration, and there is far more here than a single word.

So you want a single word from the Bible that is evidence of foreknowledge or of something that the original author could not possibly have understood? A verse like, "In the latter days there shall come penicillin..." or "And you shall name him Barack, and he shall lead his people" or something like that.

Why would a word like these be evidence of anything?

First of all, you are citing a mistranslated text. If you  want the correct translation, you should read the text in the Tanakh. Second of all , you are citing a text out of the context. The Isaiah 53 text isn't talking about the messiah. Isaiah 53 is part of the suffering servant songs in the book of Isaiah. If you read the previous chapters ,The people of  Israel is identified as the suffering servant many times. Seriously the Christianity claim that Jesus is the jewish Messiah is a big joke. Jesus never fulfill a single jewish prophecy apart of him being born a jew. The Messiah will be a 100 percent human being  and not a demi god. The Jewish messiah will be descended from David. Tribal affilation is determined by the father side and the new testament or church claims that Jesus  hasn't a human father. The Messiah will bring all the jewish tribes together and all the jews will return to Israel. That happened in the  Jesus time ? of course not . The opposite just happened.
The Messiah will bring world peace. That happened ? of course not . World peace don't happened in the first century and it seems world peace will not happen anytime soon. The Messiah will rebuild the jewish temple. It happened in the time of Jesus? of course not. The opposite happened , the second temple was destroyed ! The Messiah will bring full knowledge of god and all the world will acknowledge  the Hebrew god as the true god. That happened already ? of course not. Infact atheism is on rise and most people worldwide don't believe in the Hebrew god. And Christianity god doesn't count because your 3 head god or the trinity isn't the same god as the monotheist jewish god. Also the Messiah will get married and will have children.  Face it , your Catholic death cult and all Christianity isn't more than a Judaism heresy. Is ironic that the Catholic Church accused and killed many  " heretics" , when the church itself were the first heretics. Your cult is as false as Mormonism. The only difference is that your cult is way older. What a joke. Also forget  the second coming horseshit. The Messiah is supposed to accomplish everything in one coming.