Merged Topic - Historical Reliability of the Gospels

[LittleNipper]

If the Bible is true, then these conditions are real and verifiable outside of the Bible:

The universe is only six thousand years old, dinosaurs never existed, the world is flat and the earth is in the center of the universe, the Sun goes around the earth, demons, invisible spirits, ghosts, holy ghosts, demons, angels, snakes, bushes, and donkeys, can talk, virgin birth is possible, god and jesus live in the clouds above, prayer has secret powers over this god, miracles and blessing do occur, invisible souls can either be saved or unsaved, depending on what a person decides to believe in their heart, the heart is the center of all thought and emotion, people can talk to god and jesus with their heart, there is no such thing as a brain, people can be raised from the dead, people can walk on water, water can be turned into wine, 5000 people can easily be fed with two loaves and two fishes, only invisible jesus can save invisible souls, diseases are caused by demons, science is of the devil, a person can live in the belly of a whale for three days and nights, a whales'stomach acid has no effect upon humans.

There are certain variables that cannot be explained if the earth is as old as is thought by evolutionists. One is that the moon is moving away from the earth.  There were theories once accepted that the moon originated from the Pacific Ocean because of the this evidence. There was not enough cosmic dust found on the moon to indicate that it is billions of years old.

I never said dinosaurs never existed, and any Creationists will say that there are enough universal dragon tales around to indicate that man had at least saw  dinosaurs if not had run ins with them. The Bible never said that the sun goes around the earth. Every one I've ever talked to says the sun rises in the East and sets in the West, and yet everyone knows that the Sun doesn't set much less move from East to West. However, from the perspective of planet Earth the sun appears to do this. What color is Snow? The Bible is presented to man from his vantage point. God's very act of SALVATION seems to be confusing enough for some without going off on a tangent over particulars that most people don't regard.

The rest of you logic is without logic. Only God can raise the dead. Jesus is God and therefore can raise the dead. Only God can still a storm. Jesus stilled the storm and proves He is God. God is Lord over matter. Jesus fed 5000 with just a little --- so why not?

Jesus saves invisible souls. Have you ever seen a person die? Something certainly has left the room and it isn't the body. And now we come to Jonah! Well the Bible says that this great fish was prepared by God for that moment. AND it would seem that when Jonah arrived in Nineveh he caused a great stir throughout the city. WHY?

Well, what would you look like if you spent three days in the stomach of some creature. The people were scared to death! Jonah obvious looked like death warmed over. They would likely have thought it a miracle that this man/body could even walk let alone talk. He had to be a messenger from GOD HIMSELF, he likely look the part! And what of Nineveh? It did eventually meet its fate when it reverted to it old ways...   

[Baruch]

What was the sin of Jonah?  He didn't refuse to preach, he refused to preach to Gentiles.  And that is why the book of Jonah is mentioned by Jesus himself.

[Sargon The Grape]

I never said dinosaurs never existed and any Creationists will say that there are enough universal dragon tales around to indicate that man had at least saw  dinosaurs if not had run ins with them.

Which actually proves that dinosaurs and humans never coexisted, because dinosaurs don't look a thing like dragons (despite Hollywood's insistence to the contrary). The real tyrannosaurus rex could never be mistaken for anything but a giant chicken.

[Baruch]

Chickens are like little dinosaurs.  Even my dad recognized it before it was confirmed.  The T-Rex female was larger than the male, and probably went "cluck, cluck" real loud ;-)

[Sargon The Grape]

The T-Rex female was larger than the male, and probably went "cluck, cluck" real loud ;-)

Be careful when stating that as fact. The idea that the T. rex hens were larger than the cocks comes from comparisons to crocodilians, which exist on a much more primitive branch of Archosauria than dinosaurs. In modern birds, if either sex is larger it is usually the cock, not the hen.

[trdsf]

You would have to discredit the witnesses. You need to read the Bible. Jesus never married or got a tattoo --- he was poor.

Your bible is not a witness.  It is only a book, without anything supporting its claims.

I notice you're not even bothering trying to answer me anymore.  Doubtless you'll say that I'm "beyond reaching" -- I say it's because you cannot answer.

Where is your evidence?

If your answer is only that your bible says so, then on the same evidence I can say the Greek gods exist because of ancient Hellenic writings, I can say Ahura Mazda exists because of the Avesta, I can say all the Hindu gods exist because of the Ṛgveda.

If those books do not count as evidence, then neither does yours.

[Baruch]

Be careful when stating that as fact. The idea that the T. rex hens were larger than the cocks comes from comparisons to crocodilians, which exist on a much more primitive branch of Archosauria than dinosaurs. In modern birds, if either sex is larger it is usually the cock, not the hen.

OK, but recent research confirms what I said.  Just saying ...

[widdershins]

You label a thread site "religious" and then expect everyone to agree with atheism. Typical atheistic superiority complex.

Don't try to turn things around.  You had to go to "atheistforums.com" before you could find the section labeled "religion".  And I never claimed I expected everyone to "agree" with atheism.  I really don't care what bullshit you waste your life on.  It's yours to waste.  I simply pointed out that you are the one that came to us, not the other way around.  To avoid being "badgered" one of us would have to leave, and it's our home.

Again, typical Christian persecution complex, putting words in my mouth so that you can feel like my deeds are the dastardly ones.  The reality is that you're here because you wanted to argue.  There is no other reason for the typical Christian to come to an atheist site.  We are giving you exactly what you want.  Likewise, having you here breaks the monotony for us.  It's a win-win for both of us, so long as your comments don't cross the line into just plain annoying.  Thus, nobody is "badgering" anyone, as you claimed, and everyone is getting what they want.

[LittleNipper]

What was the sin of Jonah?  He didn't refuse to preach, he refused to preach to Gentiles.  And that is why the book of Jonah is mentioned by Jesus himself.

God told Jonah to warn the citizens of Nineveh. Jonah ran in the other direction thinking he could run away from God. Jonah hated "those" people, and in fact showed more concern for a gourd plant that died than for the fate of that city.

[Mike Cl]

What was the sin of Jonah?  He didn't refuse to preach, he refused to preach to Gentiles.  And that is why the book of Jonah is mentioned by Jesus himself.

That's all well and good.  But what did Pecos Bill say about that?

[LittleNipper]

Don't try to turn things around.  You had to go to "atheistforums.com" before you could find the section labeled "religion".  And I never claimed I expected everyone to "agree" with atheism.  I really don't care what _________ you waste your life on.  It's yours to waste.  I simply pointed out that you are the one that came to us, not the other way around.  To avoid being "badgered" one of us would have to leave, and it's our home.

Again, typical Christian persecution complex, putting words in my mouth so that you can feel like my deeds are the dastardly ones.  The reality is that you're here because you wanted to argue.  There is no other reason for the typical Christian to come to an atheist site.  We are giving you exactly what you want.  Likewise, having you here breaks the monotony for us.  It's a win-win for both of us, so long as your comments don't cross the line into just plain annoying.  Thus, nobody is "badgering" anyone, as you claimed, and everyone is getting what they want.

I have no problem with differences of opinion. And if all you want to visit your "home"  are yes men, then you are going to have one boring website. I like debate, not personal ridicule, slander and unwarranted explicatives.

[Sargon The Grape]

I have no problem with differences of opinion. And if all you want to visit your "home"  are yes men, then you are going to have one boring website. I like debate, not personal ridicule, slander and unwarranted explicatives.

You aren't debating, though. You're just preaching. And since your're not supposed to do that on this forum, people aren't going to be as nice to you as they might be otherwise.

[LittleNipper]

You aren't debating, though. You're just preaching. And since you're not supposed to do that on this forum, people aren't going to be as nice to you as they might be otherwise.

One cannot talk about the Christianity without any understanding of what the Bible has to say in that regard. I find most people today are Biblically illiterate. And it is counterproductive when an atheist spouts that God promotes slavery, when it fact no verses are presented and when atheists are unwilling to even consider that regulation is not the same as promotion.

If I am asked why I believe what I believe, it is very hard not to say anything that isn't going to cause someone to bristle. The spiritual is very often a feeling, or a direction, or a series of unexplainable events. When people say there is no GOD I find it very hard to believe that they have lived a life without any unexplainable events. Coincidence is simply a copout word that means essentially, I have no other explanation.

I think it would be far better for atheists to explain how they account for specific events in their lives that have no "logical" explanation. I'm sorry if anyone here is now an atheist because he or she was somehow hurt by a Christian (I cannot pretend to assume blame for those who are in fact not Christian but of other faiths). What you may regard as preaching may be what I consider a Biblical explanation as opposed to gut feelings (which biblically are not acceptable for a Christ centered belief).

[Baruch]

Your world and their world have little overlap, hence diminished capacity to communicate.  I straddle both worlds, so I get what you are saying, but also what they are saying.  And some people here aren't ignorant of the Bible.  Unfortunately most believers (yourself NOT included) are ignorant of the Bible.

[Sargon The Grape]

I find most people today are Biblically illiterate.

Yourself included, given your willful ignorance of the passages being presented to you.