Hello everyone. Nerdy, animal-loving viking here :D

[LadyDay]

Sorry for the rant by the way. You hit a nerve! Haha. (I am a socialistic atheist who was raised by christian fundamentalist right-wing (otherwise lovely) parents. I've fought for my freedom of mind!)

[LadyDay]

Just wondering how a Dane felt about US right wing propaganda spin on your country. Yes some of the things are true. Others are outright lies. All are spun to make your country's political system sound like a complete failure.

I'm sorry I'm completely confused, maybe it's just that I'm a little tired and stressed, but how exactly does it make our system sound like a failure? The fact that we are a society, and as such help each other, it's hardly a mark of failure! In fact were one of the richest countries in the world, with least poverty (none, basically) and we score as the happiest country on the planet in the polls. I'd say we're doing pretty darn well with our socialistic ways ;-)

[PopeyesPappy]

I'm sorry I'm completely confused, maybe it's just that I'm a little tired and stressed, but how exactly does it make our system sound like a failure? The fact that we are a society, and as such help each other, it's hardly a mark of failure! In fact were one of the richest countries in the world, with least poverty (none, basically) and we score as the happiest country on the planet in the polls. I'd say we're doing pretty darn well with our socialistic ways ;-)

Lol, Sorry LadyDay. I didn't read the graphic I posted. This is the one I wanted to reference.

[TomFoolery]

I'm sorry I'm completely confused, maybe it's just that I'm a little tired and stressed, but how exactly does it make our system sound like a failure? The fact that we are a society, and as such help each other, it's hardly a mark of failure! In fact were one of the richest countries in the world, with least poverty (none, basically) and we score as the happiest country on the planet in the polls. I'd say we're doing pretty darn well with our socialistic ways ;-)

Presidential hopefuls recently had debate here and the democratic socialist, Bernie Sanders, pointed out Denmark as being an ideal model. Then Hilary Clinton went on this tirade about how "we're not Denmark!" and all I could think is, "Yeah... too bad." :(

I don't think the U.S. would be willing to court the idea of democratic socialism in the near future (maybe never) and I think it just makes us different. In some ways the American ideal of individualism and self-determination is great, but it leaves a lot to be desired.

[Baruch]

Well, pillaging the english is kind of our national sport. It's all fun and games I'm sure... And certainly the english genepool benefited from the injection of danish genes. 
Okay, so maybe we've been a little unable to intimidate them lately..... These days we mostly enjoy Englands superior beer-/cider-production, the brilliant sense of humour of the english people, the greasy english pub food and the fact the english are among the friendliest people on the planet!
Do you have english heritage?

We're known for xmas cookies? I didn't even know that. I knew you lot had named Danish Pastries after us. Funny enough those are called "Viennese Bread" (literally), after the Austrian capital, in Denmark. Seems nobody wants responsibility for those things.

It would seem that most Christian European nations have their own holiday pastries.  I am American, but much interested in history ... and like most Americans, I have some GB/Irish ancestry.

[Baruch]

I'm Swedish on one side and Welsh on the other, so I can claim coal miner roots and Viking roots (I know, its a long stretch) but guess which one I'd claim in conversation? Back in my drinking days I went Berserker a couple of times, so its in there.......

By the way, Viking influence on the English language comes in at #10, which by number of actual Vikings is pretty incredible. They were a very persuasive bunch.

Our days of the week, Tuesday thru Friday are Viking.  Saturday is Latin.  Sunday and Monday are Anglo-Saxon.

[Baruch]

Just wondering how a Dane felt about US right wing propaganda spin on your country. Yes some of the things are true. Others are outright lies. All are spun to make your country's political system sound like a complete failure.

Not a complete failure.  Just Darwinian and punitive.  Most often drug addicts are stuck in the judicial/penal system ... not sent to Narcanon.  Self righteous puritans founded the US.

[LadyDay]

Lol, Sorry LadyDay. I didn't read the graphic I posted. This is the one I wanted to reference.

:57:
That is an incredible amount of bullshit in one place! Hahaha
I don't have time to go through the bullshit point for point right now, I'm about to go out for dinner, but I'll be happy to do so later. The first point of bullshit that had me shaking my head is the picture. I wonder if the danish ACTRESS in the picture has given her permission for the picture to be used like this. Her name is Mille Dinesen, she's one of the bigger actresses in the country, she is not a teacher named Mikkel Clair Nissen. Also, by the way, nobody would ever be named Mikkel Clair. Mikkel is a male name, Clair is a female name. It's like being named John Mary or something in english speaking countries. Oh, and the line about companies leaving Denmark was brilliant too. Ever heard of Danish companies such as Lego? Maersk? Vestas? Grundfos? All run out of little, tiny Denmark. And don't worry about their CEO's, they're all suitably millionaires, despite our social tax-system. ;-) 
Basically all the rest is bullshit too, but I'll get to that later. But it makes me very happy that you don't just buy whatever propaganda comes your way! Good for you that you are sceptical and look into the actual reality! I'm sorry your politicians are trying to sell you lies like that. But I guess that's politics for you.     

You are right that it is positive to encourage people to do their best and take responsibility for their own lives. However, keep in mind that a system like ours also only works BECAUSE everybody does their best for themselves and for society. Our society is build on everybody working together, not on everybody just sitting on their asses and taking. :-)
It is of course correct though that USA is not Denmark. There is one very significant difference. Denmark is a tiny little country with a population of less than 6 million. USA is very, very big, very, very diverse and a very, very young nation. So it might be difficult to duplicate the danish system in the US, and it might not even be desireable. But I do think the US could learn a lot from f.ex. Germany. Another very big, relatively young and very diverse nation, also consisting of multiple different states, but with a healthy, efficient welfare-system, on a scale that's more comparable to USA than Denmark is. Also, if I were to live in another country than Denmark, Germany would probably be it. Germany is lovely!
Let me know if you ever find yourself over here, I'll take you out for coffee! 

[SGOS]

That is an incredible amount of bullshit in one place! Hahaha
I don't have time to go through the bullshit point for point right now, I'm about to go out for dinner, but I'll be happy to do so later.

I'm looking forward to your point by point rebuttal.  See, that kind of bullshit in the ad is what we expect in the US.  Most people believe it.  Some of us don't.  We leave it to our party leaders to describe Denmark, because most of us can't afford to go there to see first hand the horrible oppression handed down from Stalin and Marx.  Mention socialism in the US, and watch the collective blood pressure rise by 10 points.  It's like yelling "fuck" in a Baptist Church.

[jonb]

I can not help but notice what sudden interest is produced in the boys on this forum, by the introduction of one Danish lady. Ladyday your boyfriend must feel a bit left out- so I found this for him so he can feel its his christmas too.

https://youtu.be/6lzQxjGL9S0

[Unbeliever]

Hi LadyDay!

Happy "Back to the Future Day"!

I was raised in the Southern Baptist religion, and slowly thought my way free of it. It was an interesting experience, and now I'm completely free from the fear of burning in hell for eternity. I'd much rather be nonexistent, as I was before my conception. I hope you have fun here - this is a really fun place to hang out.

 

[LadyDay]

I'm looking forward to your point by point rebuttal.  See, that kind of bullshit in the ad is what we expect in the US.  Most people believe it.  Some of us don't.  We leave it to our party leaders to describe Denmark, because most of us can't afford to go there to see first hand the horrible oppression handed down from Stalin and Marx.  Mention socialism in the US, and watch the collective blood pressure rise by 10 points.  It's like yelling "fuck" in a Baptist Church.

Haha. The horrible opression handed down from Stalin and Marx? We don't know about that, that was in a different part of the world. Denmark wasn't part of the Soviet Union and we were actually on your side during the Cold War. Politically and culturally Denmark leans significantly more towards the US than towards the old Soviet.
In fact, Denmark isn't actually socialistic as such. Politically we're very much in the middle of the spectrum. It's just that compared to US, all of Europe looks kinda socialistic.
Anyway, modern Europe is a completely different world from the old Soviet Union. No ghosts of Stalin and Marx here! So there's no reason for american blood pressure to shoot up. In fact, even the ACTUAL former soviet countries aren't haunted by the past or struggling with oppression. Nowadays they're modern, well-functioning countries. It makes me a bit sad that so many americans have no idea what the world is actually like over here, but are fed ridiculous propaganda and eating it raw. I'm glad you guys on here at least don't just automatically believe whatever some politician in election-mode is telling you about the world.

Okay, point by point rebuttal.... I'll do my best, I'm not exactly an expert, I'm just an average citizen. Anyway, here goes:
-The woman in the picture is not a school teacher called Mikkel Clair Nissen (Mikkel is a male name by the way). She's a Danish actress called Mille Dinesen.
-Yes, education, healthcare (everything except for dentistry funny enough) and student benefits are paid via taxes, this is correct.
-Yes, we pay very high taxes. On average about half of the income. The tax rate is progressive, so for the first amount you earn, you only pay 8%, and then the more you earn, the higher tax you pay. Wether this is a good idea can be discussed! You can see a proper explanation of the danish tax system here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Denmark
Keep in mind, whether you call the amount you pay "tax" or "insurance" doesn't actually matter to the individual person, you're paying about the same amount either way. The difference is that in Denmark it doesn't matter if you are rich or poor, you have access to the same high quality healthcare. Poor people aren't screwed if they get sick.
-What they mean by these hidden duties and fees they mention I don't know. Yes, there's duties on extremely unhealthy things like tobacco and on polluting things like gasoline, but they are not hidden in any way. And the graphic forgets that this is a democracy. Danes elect their own government and we have elected, on our own with no force, to have duties on these things, so that people have to pay to ruin their lungs (thus costing significantly more than average in healthcare) and pollute the environment. On the same note, yes, cars and gasoline is very expensive in Denmark, and in Europe in general. However, gasprices in Denmark is more like $6.5/gallon than the $10/gallon the graphic states. Anyway,  that is because over here we give a shit about our environment and our climate, so we do not want people to drive their giant american style car whenever they need to go to the shop 10 meters down the street. Americans on average use their cars way more than Europeans do, often for ridiculous things where they could easily have used a bicycle or their two damn feet. Over here, polluting the environment unnecessarily is going to cost you :-) The environment belongs to all of us, and you pay all of us for ruining it. Seems reasonable to me.
I don't know how car prices in Denmark compare to car prices in the US. I do know that the prices are ridiculously high in Denmark and I'm sure they are TOO high! The problem we are having is that because the cars are so expensive, people on average drive older cars than in the rest of the developed world, and older cars are generally less safe than new cars. This isn't good. I didn't say Denmark was the perfect country, we're far from!
-The graphic says we're taxed an average of 80% per earned dollar?????!!!! I have no idea where they got that number, must've pulled it out their ass. When you add up everything, the different types of taxes including sales tax and duties etc, it adds up to about 50% percent of peoples income paid as tax. This is about the same in the rest of Europe, if you include health insurance, education fees etc. Basically, where they call it insurance we just call it tax and so on. Same difference!
-When it comes to private debt, I am sure it is high in Denmark. I do not actually know enough to comment. However house loans are also cheap.  I do not know enough about this topic to comment on it I'm afraid. But if you have any questions around this, I'll be happy to ask people who know more than me :-)
-Next, the graphic says that "Anyone who makes more than $80.000 anually pays 68% tax". This is a loaded way of phrasing it, since it sounds like the richest people pay 68% of everything they earn. This is not the case! They pay "top tax", which along with everything else probably adds up to around 68%, of everything they earn above $80.000 anually. Of the first $80.000 they earn they pay exactly the same percentage as everyone else.
However, this "top tax" is always a hot topic for debate, since you can argue that it's not fair that the people with the highest incomes have to pay extra tax off the last part of it. There are perfectly valid arguments for a more flat tax system and I am not entirely sure where I stand on the topic I must admit.
However, despite "top tax", it is not correct that the highest income people leave Denmark and danish companies do not generally leave the countries.
-It is not correct that employment is low in Denmark. The 2014 numbers, supplied by your own american government, can be found here: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2129rank.html As you can see, as of 2014, unemployment rates in Denmark were 5.2%, while unemployment rates in USA were 6.2%.
-The number for suicide rates given by this graphic are plain ridiculous. The american ones are acurate enough, but the numbers for Denmark are plain lies. In fact, Denmark has lower suicide rates than US and has had so for a long time. You can check out the numbers from the World Health Organization here: http://www.who.int/mental_health/prevention/suicide/suicideprevent/en/
-Wait, we're deeply deprived and severely narcissistic? Gee thanks! I'd love to see the data for that. Is it because we don't have the puritan history americans have? Haha. We're hardly deprived just because we don't see sex as something dirty that's unfortunately neccesary to produce offspring.
-The last part of the graphics made me angry! Antidepressants do not make people artificially happy and it is a very unfortunate misconception to spread around!
However, it may very well be that consumption of anti-depressants is high in Denmark. There are two factors to keep in mind here. We are in a part of the world that gets very little sunlight, while at the same time getting very little snow (reflects a lot of light) and a LOT of rain and cloud cover. Too little sun exposure is a big factor in prevalence of depression!
Another factor is that depression has been focussed on a lot in Denmark, so doctors are very quick to prescribe anti-depressants and the medicine is cheap and readily available to everybody, also the poorer parts of the population. Because people don't go around keeping their depressions to themselves, but seek treatment right away, more people get treated, thus more medicine gets prescribed.

Okay, I think I got to everything now. Let me know if there's any questions. My personal conclusion is that I'm happy to live in Denmark and feel very fortunate to live here. With my personal health history, since childhood,, I'd be screwed if I lived in the US I imagine.  Anyway, we're not post-soviet communists here and we are not oppressed or otherwise suffering, so y'all don't have to worry  :06:

[LadyDay]

I can not help but notice what sudden interest is produced in the boys on this forum, by the introduction of one Danish lady. Ladyday your boyfriend must feel a bit left out- so I found this for him so he can feel its his christmas too.

https://youtu.be/6lzQxjGL9S0

Haha. It's just the hair. Natural blond hair has a funny effect on boys in parts of the world where it's not so common as here. Shame it doesn't work the same on more local boyfriends. Blondes don't hold the same news value here.

[LadyDay]

Hi LadyDay!

Happy "Back to the Future Day"!

I was raised in the Southern Baptist religion, and slowly thought my way free of it. It was an interesting experience, and now I'm completely free from the fear of burning in hell for eternity. I'd much rather be nonexistent, as I was before my conception. I hope you have fun here - this is a really fun place to hang out.

 

Happy B2F Day yourself mate!
It's comforting to know I'm not the only one who battled that ingrained fear of Hell for a long time. It's incredible how stuff like that can stick long after you've extracted yourself from the religion.

[SGOS]

That was a great rebuttal to the propaganda.  Actually, I've never seen that ad until it appeared here, and I actually had a picture of Denmark in my mind that was surprisingly close to your description.  Mostly Americans compare ourselves to Europe (but I think by Europe they often mean the UK).  But even more, when it comes to socialistic ideas, I hear comparisons to Canada.

I'm talking about my right wing friends who countered single payer healthcare arguments with, "It's so bad in Canada, all the Canadians have to come to the US for healthcare."  Oh, I suppose it's happened, but I never heard any such claim from any Canadian I've ever met.  And I lived 60 miles from the Canadian border for most of my life.  I've spent so much time in Canada that on one occasion, a Canadian Customs and Immigration team advised me that if I stayed in Canada for another year they would be asking me to seriously consider Canadian citizenship.

But this is kind of a lead-in to your high tax comments.  I knew you paid high taxes, which is probably the number one long term hot button political issue in the US.  People gripe about high taxes, even those that are in such low tax brackets, they don't pay any taxes.  It's like the socialism issue.  Blood pressure rises in direct proportion to threats of higher taxes.  But when I think about it, I ask myself, "What's bad about high taxes, as long as you get it back?"  This is one of our problems in the US.  Our political system is predisposed to the redistribution of taxes.  In our case, much of the tax revenue ends up with the most wealthy, in various forms of political paybacks for legalized bribes given to our leaders.

For example, healthcare would be one way to redistribute taxes back to those who paid them.  One argument against single payer was, "Medical care is too expensive.  If the government provides it, it's going to cost each of us $2000 dollars a year extra in taxes."  Well, now; Let's see:  I would have to pay $2000 dollars a year to the government for health insurance taxes.  Hmmm, but what do I pay now?  Well, before I actually get any money back, I have to meet my deductibles, which back when I did this was $3000 a year.  My employer provided insurance, but at the time, I had to contribute an additional $500 a month out of pocket.  That's $6000 plus my $3000 deductible:  $9000 when I pay it to private corporations or $2000 when I pay it in taxes.  Which is the better deal?

Of course the person who came up with the propaganda was pulling figures out of his ass, just like in than anti-Denmark propaganda.  But considering that this particular healthcare argument's facts were wrong, I could still pay a lot more in taxes and come out way ahead.  In addition, there are so many loopholes and powers of decision over our health care given to private suppliers, so it's not that great, even if you take the financial arguments out of the equation, and just examine the quality of our care.

The point is not how high your taxes are, but how much benefit you get in return, but the knee jerk reaction here is to shut down all thought process when  higher taxes are mentioned.

Denmark sounds like a very nice place. 

I'm sorry, I could go on and on, but fortunately immediate demands prevent me from creating a wall of text.