The Refugee Crisis

[josephpalazzo]

Do you honestly think if the fighting ended tomorrow that all these people should immediately become Californian surfing dudes?

Californians, no, but surfing dudes, why not? I know people who surf on sand dunes.

[josephpalazzo]

Sharks always see opportunities.  Don't loose your bikini while swimming off shore ;-(

Well, tell that to my wife... oh wait, NO.

[stromboli]

Got the lowdown about Iraq specifically when my son came back from Iraq on his first tour. He said that there were conflicts going on after Saddam fell that were neighborhood to neighborhood, Shiites against Sunnis, old grudges from like 300 years ago being rehashed after the dictatorship was gone. The mindset is nothing but Tribalism and grudge fighting. His company repaired a water distribution center that was damaged in the conflict that served a Sunni neighborhood. 2 weeks later they had to repair it again because a Shiite group came in and sabotaged it.

I'm a cold blooded old man. Personally don't get too broke up if they kill themselves off in the process.

[Jason78]

The British...... causing fkn trouble since fknose when.......

If we didn't do it, then someone else would.   And you just know they would screw it up worse.

[Solitary]

Thanks, I was in and out of hospital, but everything is ok now.

Glad it didn't effect your intelligence JP! And glad you are OK now!

[Solitary]

I'm moving to California soon, where dreams become realities, but I'm too old to surf, but I can still watch, and listen to good music.

[josephpalazzo]

Better bring your own water, just in case...

[Baruch]

If we didn't do it, then someone else would.   And you just know they would screw it up worse.

That is why you got the Americans to rejoin the Anglo club ... to screw it up worse ;-)

[pr126]

U.S. to accept 10,000 Syrian refugees: White House

President Barack Obama has directed his administration to prepare to take in at least 10,000 Syrian refugees over the next year, the White House said on Thursday.

It is the first specific commitment the United States has made toward increasing its acceptance of refugees from the war-torn country.

Since the start of the Syrian civil war in 2011, the United States has taken in 1,500 refugees, with 300 more expected to be cleared by October.

But refugee advocates and some members of Congress said taking in an additional 10,000 refugees did not go far enough toward addressing the humanitarian crisis triggered by the war, which has prompted a massive refugee influx into Europe.

In a letter distributed to House members and seen by Reuters, Democratic Representative David Cicilline asked Obama to accommodate 65,000 Syrian refugees by the end of 2016. Religious groups have called for the United States to accept 100,000 Syrian refugees.

European countries have taken in waves of migrants fleeing violence. Germany allowed 20,000 migrants into the country over the weekend and is preparing for 800,000 this year.

Melanie Nezer, vice president of HIAS, a global refugee advocacy group, said that for the United States to allow 10,000 more refugees from Syria was not an adequate response to the crisis.

[The Skeletal Atheist]

Haven't read the thread, really, so sorry if these points were brought up.

To preface this I will say that I'm not opposed to genuine refugees being able to find asylum in other countries, but some things have been on my mind:

What, if anything, it's being done to protect LGBT people in the host counties?

These refugees come from counties, from cultures where the rights of LGBT are trampled over and over again. The very notion of being LGBT is an abomination to many of them. They're going to counties where LGBT people's rights are generally respected, and LGBT people are generally open. With this sort of culture shock what steps, if any, are being taken to prevent violence against LGBT people?

What about women's rights? Once again, they're coming from a culture where women have very little rights compared to their host counties. What's being done to ensure that women's rights are being respected?

Is there anything being done to, for lack of a better term, modernize them?

Or are these concerns being swept under the rug to avoid being seen as "Islamophobic" or "racist"?

[josephpalazzo]

Haven't read the thread, really, so sorry if these points were brought up.

To preface this I will say that I'm not opposed to genuine refugees being able to find asylum in other countries, but some things have been on my mind:

What, if anything, it's being done to protect LGBT people in the host counties?

These refugees come from counties, from cultures where the rights of LGBT are trampled over and over again. The very notion of being LGBT is an abomination to many of them. They're going to counties where LGBT people's rights are generally respected, and LGBT people are generally open. With this sort of culture shock what steps, if any, are being taken to prevent violence against LGBT people?

What about women's rights? Once again, they're coming from a culture where women have very little rights compared to their host counties. What's being done to ensure that women's rights are being respected?

Is there anything being done to, for lack of a better term, modernize them?

Or are these concerns being swept under the rug to avoid being seen as "Islamophobic" or "racist"?

It's a concern but you have to keep in mind that these are people whose culture failed them. Also, by being exposed to the LGBT community and women's rights, they might realize they are not the "evil" things they were made out to be back in their own countries. I'm more concerned on the economic front: Given the adequate shelter, food and clothes, will they have the opportunity to earn a decent living to get their new life going? That is quite a challenge both for the refugees and the host country.

[The Skeletal Atheist]

It's a concern but you have to keep in mind that these are people whose culture failed them. Also, by being exposed to the LGBT community and women's rights, they might realize they are not the "evil" things they were made out to be back in their own countries.

I'm well aware of that, but it's not going to be an instant transition. Cultural homophobia doesn't go away quickly. Individuals will rise above it, but a change in the community will be slow. There will be attacks, and there will be victims who feel like their counties failed them. There will be the potential for attempts by the refugee class to repress LGBT and women's rights. It's an unfortunate reality and a legitimate concern that needs to be addressed, but I fear that these concerns will be swept under the rug for fear of appearing "judgmental".

I'm more concerned on the economic front: Given the adequate shelter, food and clothes, will they have the opportunity to earn a decent living to get their new life going? That is quite a challenge both for the refugees and the host country.

That's also a legitimate concern. The refugees need to be able to live a dignified life if this is going to be successful. There's simply no way to support any large segment of the population being impoverished without horrible things happening.

[Baruch]

Europe and N America can't take care of the people we already have (partly because only the millionaires have benefitted for the past 35 years).  The guy who cried over his lost family ... he was a people trafficker himself, charging $10,000 a pop to the passengers on his boat.  And he was responsible for the sinking, since his boating captaincy was marginal.  Given that Turkey is falling apart (hence the refugees who used to be in Turkey fleeing to Germany/UK) you can expect more chaos.  Kiss Europe goodbye ... and GB unless you keep the gates closed.  This has MI6 and CIA and Mossad written all over it ... just like Ukraine 18 months ago.  Accepting the Gothic refugees worked out so well for Emperor Arcadius at the Battle of Adrianople.

[jonb]

Some little points and a bit of speculation, which may add some colour to that part of history.

All the Gothic tribal leaders had been Roman generals and served in the Roman army for twenty five years.
At the end of a twenty five year service in the Roman army the contract was the soldier would be given land and citizenship.
The Barbarian leaders demand was that they should be given land.

Speculation
How many times have politicians covered over the economic failure of their empires and their inability to fulfil contracts, and blamed the problems on immigrants, the poor, or other minority groups?

[josephpalazzo]

  The guy who cried over his lost family ... he was a people trafficker himself,

The latest news is that he denies that. He took over the boat only after the smuggler bailed out, which is quite common.