A more complete view on my religious views

[dtq123]

Often if you read what you wrote, a few days later, you think ... "Who was that guy!".

Nah, I don't contradict myself that often.

[Baruch]

Maybe my sense of identity is more nebulous than yours ... damn that cloud storage anyways!

[Mike Cl]

Talking with others or writing it down, forces you to articulate.  Often if you read what you wrote, a few days later, you think ... "Who was that guy!".

I agree with this--it has worked for me.  Keeping a journal is a great, great help in sorting out what one thinks about one's life and where it is going.  And re-reading does cause one to shake one's head in amazement.  Especially years later. :))) 

[aitm]

No moral principles develops most often into suicide because of the fact that once people abandon religion, they don't plan ahead and give themselves a purpose to live for other than what religion had provided.

(I recognize this is a claim made by many believers, but I stand by it anyway X3)

I think I have a real hard time agreeing your premise. We know of some ancient cultures where religion did not exist as far as a controlling god or even a god at all, and there is no evidence of widespread suicide.

Moral principles do not come from religion, they come from the tribe/culture/society and then those morals are adopting into their religion. We see this in the spread of Christianity, consider the food bans of Leviticus, do you think societies that relied heavily on pork or seafood would willingly agree to stop eating that? Heck no, religion bent the rules to bring in more followers to help spread their beliefs over others, more power, more money. This is why today we don't really follow the rules of our religion if they interfere with our lives. Morals come from our society, our parents and society teaches us our morals. Your premise while correct according to Christians would demand the existence of the god who supposedly passed along these "morals" not withstanding his genocidal, maniacal, psychopathical behavior.

[dtq123]

Morals come from our society, our parents and society teaches us our morals. Your premise while correct according to Christians would demand the existence of the god who supposedly passed along these "morals" not withstanding his genocidal, maniacal, psychopathical behavior.

I agree, Perhaps I was mistaken in my beliefs. Thanks for helping me figure myself out. ^_^

[Solitary]

(Added Ethics and Nihilism because we might need it later...This was Google's definitions, feel free to play with semantics here)

Religion
Noun
The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

Philosophy
Noun
The study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, especially when considered as an academic discipline.
+ A particular system of philosophical thought

Ethics
Noun
Moral principles that govern a person's or group's behavior.

Nihilism
Noun
The rejection of all religious and moral principles, often in the belief that life is meaningless.
It is important to have meaning in life to prevent a higher rate of suicide. Suicide often means that there is an underlying problem that can not be resolved. Some suicides are justified because we cannot change the situation or the perspective, but some are not when we can. One of the perspective changes we need is after a person becomes nihilistic.

Nihilism is not good for society because it reverts us back into primitive apes where we have not moral consideration, or perhaps worse; forward into extinction due to mass suicide.

After finding meaning in life, many atheists say that life is inherently better than death (under most circumstances). Thus it can be said that this judgement is fairly sound, since many atheist have also put a lot of time and effort into their current philosophy.

However, people in a nihilistic state often are traumatized by this cold realization, and are unable to make proper judgement calls, thus making it difficult for them to make rational decisions.

This is a problem many Christians accuse us of, and should find out a way to fix.
Not if you don't know how to live it fully, hence we need to educate people on how to work with us and prepare a life worth living after religion, because often an abrupt change in how one lives life causes frustration or depression, and adding nihilism to that does not help.

And so this happens because people are too scared to drop out of religion:
By the way, do you know of Heidegger or Sartre? "Perversion or being an authentic person" made me think of them

Yes, I have read Heidegger and Sartre, who was my dads favorite philosopher. Depression has nothing to do with ones beliefs, if it did then very religious people who have been taught suicide is a sin wouldn't be depressed and commit suicide. This is a fallacy of False Cause. How many religions have had mass suicides? I can't think of any atheist mass suicides. I personally don't think people are afraid to drop out of religion for the most part, I would say it has more to do with not being able to let go of loved ones that have died. I have had a long and eventful life after being an atheist from the age of six. I have been severely depressed by loss of a loved one early in life, and many since, but I have never thought of suicide when I was, or saw any meaning in life accept survival. The only times I have thought of suicide was when in unbearable pain from body injury, and after botched surgery. In fact, I'm happier now than I have ever been. Having said that, I still believe death is favorable to unrelenting pain and suffering, even though in concentration camps people clawed their way out of burning buildings because they still had the will to live. Thinking of Nietzsche? I do believe we all have been better to never have been born considering how all our lives end tragically, even at its best. I will fight for my life until I can't fight any longer, because it is the only one I have, and as long as I can get pleasure from life in so many fantastic ways. I life's worth infinite, but not sacred in any way. Good post by the way!   

[dtq123]

Yes, I have read Heidegger and Sartre, who was my dads favorite philosopher. Depression has nothing to do with ones beliefs, if it did then very religious people who have been taught suicide is a sin wouldn't be depressed and commit suicide. This is a fallacy of False Cause. How many religions have had mass suicides? I can't think of any atheist mass suicides. I personally don't think people are afraid to drop out of religion for the most part, I would say it has more to do with not being able to let go of loved ones that have died. I have had a long and eventful life after being an atheist from the age of six. I have been severely depressed by loss of a loved one early in life, and many since, but I have never thought of suicide when I was, or saw any meaning in life accept survival. The only times I have thought of suicide was when in unbearable pain from body injury, and after botched surgery. In fact, I'm happier now than I have ever been. Having said that, I still believe death is favorable to unrelenting pain and suffering, even though in concentration camps people clawed their way out of burning buildings because they still had the will to live. Thinking of Nietzsche? I do believe we all have been better to never have been born considering how all our lives end tragically, even at its best. I will fight for my life until I can't fight any longer, because it is the only one I have, and as long as I can get pleasure from life in so many fantastic ways. I life's worth infinite, but not sacred in any way. Good post by the way!   

I am heavily biased by my personal experience, but I concede that many atheists often go between religious and atheist life seamlessly. Thanks for the input

[aitm]

See DT, I think your thinking, imo, is backwards. IF indeed there is no god, then the reality and inescapable truth is this is all the time you get. The brief nanosecond that the universe allows. There is nothing afterwards. Now for those with a religious background (and even for those without) this is really kind of a depressing and sad state of affairs we have here. Looking back at all the billions who have died, some for glory, some killed for mere fun, billions gone, the very most without even a chance to taste what love feels like, or true friendship, or the understanding that you are part of a grand cosmic somethingorother, that really doesn't even know you exist and doesn't care, but for it, you get this one brief moment.

What then, is the difference if you kill yourself now or when you are 90? Is this so miserable that nothing is considered better?  We are surrounded by billions and billions of smaller life forms that have just as much right to their brief moment as we do, but we kill them off by the millions either by chemicals or simply walking outdoors. We humans think we are owed something, that there MUST be something out there that makes us better than ants or squirrels or oak trees. But we are not. There are insects whose entire life is 2 days. I certainly hope they are not aware of that eh?

Breath deep, this is life, it will be gone soon enough. For the time you have, laugh, love, live.

[Solitary]

I'm not one of them, even after horrendous death defying events that have happened to me. I'm always happy. If I'm suffering for any reason I'm happy it will end sooner or later. And if I'm not, I'm happy I am not suffering and can enjoy life. I have never been a believer in real magic, and am a skeptical by nature of any claims without sound evidence and logic, even in science that has evidence and belief based on interpretation of the evidence that may be bogus because of confirmation bias. We are very complicated beings with intelligence and rationality, along with irrational emotions to contend with. All my major decisions in life have been based on my irrational self. When I buy a car I don't buy it to be practical, if I did I would get a used Taxi cab in perfect running condition. My car now is an S2000 Club racer set up for racing from the factory with only two seats, hardly what is based on rationality. I'm a hedonists, even if all my pleasures in life have been death defying, even a lot of jobs I've had working 300 feet in the air with no safety equipment walking on steel covered with ice. At that time, if you used safety equipment, you would have been laughed at as being a coward. I have a lust for life, not death.