Do Christains Deserve Any Credit for good actions?

[Sal1981]

Now that you mention it, SGOS. I tend to think the same way as you.  That there are plenty of good people going to churches, but they are good despite their christian beliefs.

Not only that, if they really know the Bible's dusty teachings, they not only are good despite the Bible, but go straight against the Bible.

[Mike Cl]

Not only that, if they really know the Bible's dusty teachings, they not only are good despite the Bible, but go straight against the Bible.

And I'm sure many of them are not even aware of that fact.

[Cocoa Beware]

Sure

[KingJ]

Not only that, if they really know the Bible's dusty teachings, they not only are good despite the Bible, but go straight against the Bible.

Huh?

[dtq123]

Huh?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK7P7uZFf5o

[lstan135]

Dear Lord, Jesus, please forgive them for they know not what they are saying.

Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk

[Mike Cl]

Dear Lord, Jesus, please forgive them for they know not what they are saying.

Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk

Yeah, actually, we do.  Do you?????

[Munch]

Dear lord voldemort, I ask thee to smite down lstan135 for not even being polite enough to make an introduction thread.

Now if voldemort doesn't smite you down, it means he's an all loving dark wizard.


Sent from my bedroom while watching gay porn.

[Blackleaf]

Not only that, if they really know the Bible's dusty teachings, they not only are good despite the Bible, but go straight against the Bible.

I disagree. Look at the way Jesus promoted people to live. He stopped a woman from being stoned to death, even though the law said that she could be killed for her sin. He told his followers to be kind, not only to the people they like, but also to the people they don't. Heck, he even told them to be kind to their enemies, the people who want to rob, harm, or kill you. The only time his words or actions promoted violence was in the temple, when the religious were trying to scam people out of their money. He treated all people with respect, including the ones who were deeply hated by most Jewish people, such as the tax collectors, Samaritans, prostitutes, and lepers. If Christians actually lived up to Jesus' standards, the world we live in would be very different.

[Sal1981]

I disagree. Look at the way Jesus promoted people to live. He stopped a woman from being stoned to death, even though the law said that she could be killed for her sin. He told his followers to be kind, not only to the people they like, but also to the people they don't. Heck, he even told them to be kind to their enemies, the people who want to rob, harm, or kill you. The only time his words or actions promoted violence was in the temple, when the religious were trying to scam people out of their money. He treated all people with respect, including the ones who were deeply hated by most Jewish people, such as the tax collectors, Samaritans, prostitutes, and lepers. If Christians actually lived up to Jesus' standards, the world we live in would be very different.

I'm talking about the whole Bible. You can find good deeds in the OT as well as NT, but as a whole; owning slaves, condemning homosexuality, genocide, and overall just evil acts does not even compare to the few disparate good deeds in the Bible. Even Jesus had a number of evil deeds and bad morality ascribed to him.

[Baruch]

Sal1981 - The Bible is clearly the work of fallible men.  Have never gotten why it is elevated above that.  On the other hand, many people thru history, have not realized how many bad things are in it.  Are at least a few more people getting it?  I hope so.

[Mike Cl]

I disagree. Look at the way Jesus promoted people to live. He stopped a woman from being stoned to death, even though the law said that she could be killed for her sin. He told his followers to be kind, not only to the people they like, but also to the people they don't. Heck, he even told them to be kind to their enemies, the people who want to rob, harm, or kill you. The only time his words or actions promoted violence was in the temple, when the religious were trying to scam people out of their money. He treated all people with respect, including the ones who were deeply hated by most Jewish people, such as the tax collectors, Samaritans, prostitutes, and lepers. If Christians actually lived up to Jesus' standards, the world we live in would be very different.

I understand your point, Blackleaf.  Jesus is attributed to many good sayings and suggestions.  But are not the things you mention at least a little bit of cherry picking?  Consider that Jesus also said:

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. Matthew 10:34
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. Luke 12:51

He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. Revelation 19:11

The buybull is not all evil.  There is some good wrapped in that blanket of evil.  But that does not make the bible a great place to find one's morals.  Plus, Jesus, like Moses, is a fiction.  I find that there are plenty of flesh and blood people to quote (if I want to quote others) if I need or want to--don't need to quote fictional characters.  In other words, in my view, Jesus is fictional.  Just as all gods are fictional (Or mythical, as you will), as well.

[Blackleaf]

I understand your point, Blackleaf.  Jesus is attributed to many good sayings and suggestions.  But are not the things you mention at least a little bit of cherry picking?  Consider that Jesus also said:

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. Matthew 10:34
Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. Luke 12:51

These two verses are two accounts of the same speech. In them, Jesus is quoting Micah 7, which warns readers to be careful who they trust. Even family can turn against you. The early days of Christianity were not easy for believers. They were often killed for their beliefs. One historian at the time (I can't remember who) described their bodies as lighting up the streets at night like street lamps. Converting from Judaism to Christianity was very risky, because the family could disown them or have them killed.

He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. Luke 22:36

What's wrong with that? It was common for people to carry swords around for self-defense.

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. Revelation 19:11

Quoting from Revelation is troublesome because it is full of symbolism. Christians don't even know what to make of it. Read the rest of that paragraph and you see descriptors like eyes of "blazing fire," a robe dyed red with blood, a sword coming out of his mouth, and a tattoo written on his thigh. I don't think anyone knows what all that is supposed to mean.

The buybull is not all evil.  There is some good wrapped in that blanket of evil.  But that does not make the bible a great place to find one's morals.  Plus, Jesus, like Moses, is a fiction.  I find that there are plenty of flesh and blood people to quote (if I want to quote others) if I need or want to--don't need to quote fictional characters.  In other words, in my view, Jesus is fictional.  Just as all gods are fictional (Or mythical, as you will), as well.

That's fine, but I can't say that Jesus was not depicted in the Bible as a moral giant. It would be awesome if more Christians lived by his example rather than using him as their get-into-heaven-free card.

[Mike Cl]

Blackleaf, I'd have to agree with you that if more christians would put some thought into what they believe and do a little research into that thought, all would be better off.

I guess my main point in referring to Jesus is that I think he is a myth and not an actual person.  That is not to say that all that he is purported to have taught is bad or not of value.  He has many good lessons to teach, as does all the dying/rising gods.  But then so does Aesop, Brothers Grimm and many more.   

[SGOS]

Blackleaf, I'd have to agree with you that if more christians would put some thought into what they believe and do a little research into that thought, all would be better off.

I guess my main point in referring to Jesus is that I think he is a myth and not an actual person.  That is not to say that all that he is purported to have taught is bad or not of value.  He has many good lessons to teach, as does all the dying/rising gods.  But then so does Aesop, Brothers Grimm and many more.   

Hell, even Bill Crosby had good moral lessons on his TV show.