Rate the latest movie you've seen.

[trdsf]

Star Wars was a supervillain series. Only interesting character in the movies was a bad guy.

The villain is always the interesting character.  Look at Professor Moriarty -- he played an active role in exactly one Holmes story (with mentions in one succeeding novel and five stories, most of which clearly after his death)... and yet he comes down to us as the epitome of the evil genius on the basis of just that.  Not bad for only one direct appearance.

[Hydra009]

The villain is always the center of attention, but the villain's main job is really to serve as a foil to the hero - the villain is a failed hero, someone who could've been heroic, but character flaws or circumstance prevented a rise to glory or triggered a fall from grace.

Anakin/Luke, Moriarty/Holmes, Magneto/Professor X, Saruman/Gandalf, etc.

[Blackleaf]

Fans complain about Rey being a Mary Sue, but Luke was such a bland character, especially in Episode VI. It's amazing how much people can forgive with a heaping helping of nostalgia.

[Hydra009]

Fans complain about Rey being a Mary Sue, but Luke was such a bland character, especially in Episode VI. It's amazing how much people can forgive with a heaping helping of nostalgia.

I actually really like Luke's character ><

He had a character arc - he's a different character in all three movies.  Young and naive in the first.  Vengeful and impatient in the second.  Older and wiser in the third.

He went on the classic hero's journey.  He struggled and lost a lot along the way (his family, his mentor, Dak, his hand, etc) and he emerged victorious over both himself and over the Emperor.  And he even did the impossible and successfully sought redemption in the blackest of hearts.  He learned mercy and compassion - and that was crucial to his success.

Rey...how do I put this?...has not had quite the same arc.

[Blackleaf]

I actually really like Luke's character ><

He had a character arc - he's a different character in all three movies.  Young and naive in the first.  Vengeful and impatient in the second.  Older and wiser in the third.

He went on the classic hero's journey.  He struggled and lost a lot along the way (his family, his mentor, Dak, his hand, etc) and he emerged victorious over both himself and over the Emperor.  And he even did the impossible and successfully sought redemption in the blackest of hearts.  He learned mercy and compassion - and that was crucial to his success.

Rey...how do I put this?...has not had quite the same arc.

I love Mark Hamill, but I don't think Luke Skywalker was his best work. George Lucas' cheesy writing probably wasn't much help. I'd say his acting was probably best in the first movie, then the second had him trying to be dark and just coming off as silly. Then the third one made every character super cheesy. The arguments back and forth between him and Darth Sidius was just painful to listen to. It just made me go, "Just get to the lightsaber duel already!" IMO, Han Solo was the most interesting hero of the original prequels.

As for Rey, I'm not going to deny the Disney trilogy has a lot of problems. Rey's hero's journey is considerably weaker, with more of an emphasis on self-discovery than any higher purpose. But the presentation is better. That's the weird thing about the Disney sequels so far. Their writing is bad, but their execution is phenomenal. I don't know how, but they do a lot with such lazily written plots.

[Hydra009]

IMO, Han Solo was the most interesting hero of the original prequels.

Original...prequels?  *raised eyebrow*  Heh.  Damn, this is getting convoluted.

And yeah, Han is interesting.  (Though one wouldn't know from the Solo box office figures, solo uno zero, more like :P)  From what I've heard, younger audiences sympathized more like Luke while older audiences sympathized more with Han. 

Rey's hero's journey is considerably weaker, with more of an emphasis on self-discovery than any higher purpose. But the presentation is better.

That's the weird thing about the Disney sequels so far. Their writing is bad, but their execution is phenomenal.

Completely agreed.  That cave scene alone could've been brilliant.  Instead, it's just a thing that happens that looks pretty cool, but doesn't really matter that much to the plot.  Hopefully, JJ fixes things.  Otherwise, the sequel trilogy plotline is going to look like a ball of yarn that a cougar played with.

[Blackleaf]

Completely agreed.  That cave scene alone could've been brilliant.  Instead, it's just a thing that happens that looks pretty cool, but doesn't really matter that much to the plot.  Hopefully, JJ fixes things.  Otherwise, the sequel trilogy plotline is going to look like a ball of yarn that a cougar played with.

There's a fan theory that, if true, could redeem that scene. The theory is that Rey was created via the Force, making her parents literally no one. This wouldn't be the first time this has happened, as I'm sure you know. Anakin didn't have a natural father, but Sidious created Anakin by using the Force to create life, after learning the ability from his master Plagueis. The problem with this theory is the timing. Who could have been around to create Rey? Sidious was dead. Vader could have learned how to do it, but he died too. Also, with Anakin, there was still a mother, so did someone take the art to a whole new level?

[Munch]

The villain is always the interesting character.  Look at Professor Moriarty -- he played an active role in exactly one Holmes story (with mentions in one succeeding novel and five stories, most of which clearly after his death)... and yet he comes down to us as the epitome of the evil genius on the basis of just that.  Not bad for only one direct appearance.

Not always true. Look at iron man 1 and 2, guardians of the galaxy and frozen. The villains in those were all very forgettable compared to the heroes

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Not always true. Look at iron man 1 and 2, guardians of the galaxy and frozen. The villains in those were all very forgettable compared to the heroes

If the villain is crap, like the golden lady, then you take what you can get.

[Hydra009]

If the villain is crap, like the golden lady, then you take what you can get.

She wasn't the main villain, though!  She wasn't even the secondary villain (the mutineers).  She was just some asshole with a vindictive streak.

[SGOS]

Generally the thinking is that a strong superhero requires a strong villain to make a story.  I think audiences, readers, and writers want or follow that format.  I recognize that, and it makes sense, but personally, I don't agree, but that's just me, I doubt if my needs would please audiences as much as the usual format.  My thinking is that a superhero that struggles isn't that gifted and far less exciting, and I like it when they get totally kick ass.  When superman get's exposed to Kryptonite, I start to nod off: "This shit again?"

Iron Man I had no super villain to fight, just a common terrorist, a creepy one at that, but a total asshole that needed to be given his come-uppence.  And I was totally satisfied when that happened.  Later Iron man is fighting giant iron whale skeletons that fly in the sky.  Granted that's kind of clever, but they didn't creep me out.  They were just objects to be destroyed.

Switching from villain quality to hero quality, I like heroes that are virtually indestructible.  An example is Captain Marvel (at this point anyway).  Later I'm sure they will introduce more formidable villains for her to fight because apparently they have to.  To me Captain Marvel nears flawless perfection, she briefly appeared in the beginning of Endgame to establish herself as a hero with fearless confidence, while the rest of the Avengers were diddling around with their reservations (as they should have been), Thor recognized her value after he did his macho hammer thing that left her unimpressed. Also, Captain Marvel never got into a sullen funk, spending eons evaluating her worth in morose introspection.  Then she was gone from the movie until a brief appearance at the end, disappointing audiences in doing so apparently, but that brief appearance made the movie about her, and it made it for me.  In no time flat she cleaned up the mess of an epic unending battle between worn out humans, minor gods, and techno giants who could not stop an indestructible Titan, and She left me breathless.

Right or wrong or just different strokes, that's what I would like to see more of.  But I fear it's not going to happen much.

[Munch]

anyway, just watched this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56FsSmUi0Yk&t=618s

I like Jeremy Jahns a lot, love his reviews.

This thing with george lucas and bob iger, it really comes off of no surprise at all, the nature of disney and its power over people.

And really it breaks down to I do feel sorry for lucas seeing the thing he made up being turned into something he didn't agree on, and having to sit there and see it upended is awful for any creator. But for disney, they are the beast with a thousand ends and it wasn't going to do anything else.

This is why, when I first heard how disney was buying marvel and star wars, while everyone else was celebrating how great it was to have such a rich and powerful company own these franchises, I was one of the ones who just thought... really? A evil massive corporation only invested in growing and expanding itself owns these things are you don't even question if this is a good thing or not?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

She wasn't the main villain, though!  She wasn't even the secondary villain (the mutineers).  She was just some asshole with a vindictive streak.

But she was the carry-on villain.

[SGOS]

Dowton Abbey  7/10
But this is from someone who loved the TV series.  It was OK, but for me fell short of a series episode, which is kind of what it could have been.  Viewers give it a 95%.  I tried to catch an opening day matinee, but the line was too long to make it until long after the coming attractions started.  I left mostly because I don't like crowded theaters.  I looked at the line buying tickets, and I didn't see anyone younger than 50.  It appears to be serving a niche group so that 95% is not from a typical audience.  I wish I would have liked it more the way I did the movies that followed TV series like Stargate SG1 or Firefly.  This wasn't as interesting as the series.  I saw it on Tightwad Tuesday with less than 10 other people in the theater.

[Hydra009]

But she was the carry-on villain.

She was the one who got the ball rolling and conflicts started, but that's pretty much it