When Atheists Tell The Truth...

[Odoital778412]

Alright, I'll play. I'm saying that free choice isn't free choice when the person in charge make all the other possibilities so unpleasant that the only other logical option is to choose the one that was chosen for you.

Worshipping God is like voting in a Russian election. We all know you can vote for the other guy (if one even makes it on the ballot) but you'll end up in a gulag if you do. So sure, that's choice.

And yes, I'd rather go to Hell. And eternity in Heaven would be Hell for me anyway. I'd rather spend it in Hell with all the gay people and blasphemers. It would make for more interesting conversation than having to deal with people like you for eternity.

Okay, but unless you and every other person on the planet who are aware of the choices become Christians, then the freedom still exists.  If you didn't have the freedom to choose, then there would be no atheists.  The fact is, whether the consequences are good or bad, you can choose whatever you want.  If you choose to deny the existence of God or however your atheism is rationalized, then you're rejecting the pardon and choosing to pay for your crimes yourself.  It's as simple as that.  Saying otherwise is revealed as a falsehood immediately by the fact that you're not a Christian and neither are most of the people who frequent this forum.  If the choice was made for you, then you'd be a believer right now. And if you'd rather go to Hell, then why are you saying that there's no choice?  That can't be true, given what you've said.  If you'd rather go to Hell, then you're saying that you'd actually choose Hell over Heaven on purpose.  So you're admitting that you'd be making a free choice and the objection disappears.

[Odoital778412]

The ants in my backyard don't require anything of me and I don't require anything of them. I get to play god all the time by bringing pestilence from the sky,  earthquakes from the shovel, floods from the garden hose and so on, but if they decide to move next door I'm fine with that and don't go next door to smite them.. It's a silly proposal, sure just as your god is a silly proposal..

I don't get it.  Since you didn't create the ants, the ground, or anything else....the situation isn't analogous at all.

[TomFoolery]

It's Sunday, shouldn't you be in church or something? Or do you troll atheist forums to stock up on Jesus points for the week?

[Odoital778412]

It's Sunday, shouldn't you be in church or something? Or do you troll atheist forums to stock up on Jesus points for the week?

I should be, but unfortunately, I have to work.  The upside is that I get to post here in between making events, running plates, etc...  Sunday is a pretty slow day for law enforcement, at least where I am.  Besides, I can livestream my Pastor's sermon at 11am anyway.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

I don't get it.  Since you didn't create the ants, the ground, or anything else....the situation isn't analogous at all.

Are you sure that I didn't create the ants? I might have.  For all you really know I am the creator of all things anty.
Wait!  Which god? Which church? They all claim to know that their god and church is the correct god and church. I might go to your church only to find out that no matter how well intentioned that god, for whatever reason got really pissed off at some elder somewhere along the line and decided to condemn me and my family and all of our kids for a million generations and for what? Who knows? The preacher wore the wrong fucking hat on Tuesday and forgot to tell anyone..

[Munch]

As god is not testable, by logic or reason, there is nothing to show he exists as a real entity and so does not garner any attention from me anymore then father christmas.

However, and heres something you christians don't quite understand, and its pretty fucking simple to get your heads around without the road block of your ignorance. If god was real, if he really existed, what has he done that he would deserve me worshiping him over?

You've never really read the bible word for word have you Odoital778412? Maybe a priest read it to you, but the passages he liked and so you like now. God of the bible, this fictional fantasy book you refer to, is a monster. He's a twisted character presenting a false image for people to worship, while in his own 'holy book' commit mass genocide against people, causes death and suffering because he can just to prove he can, and has no problems being a dick to everyone when it suits him. Given the shit he's done in the bibles stories, if he was a real person, I'd spit on his grave as what a disgusting entity he is.

He's a tyrannical character with a demand for worship otherwise punishes those who don't, as has been said many times in the bibles on words.

So if he was real, which he isn't, I would not worship it, because I live by a moral standard higher then your own expectations.

One other thing, your atheist yourself if you didn't realize, because as has been said, because you don't believe in other religions and their deities, you deny their existence on the basis of just one.

[Odoital778412]

Are you sure that I didn't create the ants? I might have.  For all you really know I am the creator of all things anty.
Wait!  Which god? Which church? They all claim to know that their god and church is the correct god and church. I might go to your church only to find out that no matter how well intentioned that god, for whatever reason got really pissed off at some elder somewhere along the line and decided to condemn me and my family and all of our kids for a million generations and for what? Who knows? The preacher wore the wrong fucking hat on Tuesday and forgot to tell anyone..

Since no human beings on the planet can create ants out of pre-existing matter that they themselves must first create, I'm pretty sure you didn't create any ants, to say nothing of all things anty.  As for the rest, since the analogy isn't a good one, I won't bother attempting to string together every odd sect of Christendom you can find out there.  The fact is that the vast majority believe the same set of important salient details and differ on other issues of lesser importance.  That's good enough for me.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Hey,  don't you have some little kids to go harass for no good reason?  You're in law enforcement?  A public servant?  Apparently you're more than just a servant of god.. You're breaking the Sabbath and working on Sunday? 
Well...see ya in H E double dirty Q-tips officer..

[Odoital778412]

As god is not testable, by logic or reason, there is nothing to show he exists as a real entity and so does not garner any attention from me anymore then father christmas.

Many learned people and scholars would disagree with you entirely.

However, and heres something you christians don't quite understand, and its pretty fucking simple to get your heads around without the road block of your ignorance. If god was real, if he really existed, what has he done that he would deserve me worshiping him over?

He created all that has ever come into existence.  That's a pretty astounding fete, especially since we're only perceptually aware of a mere fraction of His creation.

You've never really read the bible word for word have you Odoital778412? Maybe a priest read it to you, but the passages he liked and so you like now. God of the bible, this fictional fantasy book you refer to, is a monster. He's a twisted character presenting a false image for people to worship, while in his own 'holy book' commit mass genocide against people, causes death and suffering because he can just to prove he can, and has no problems being a dick to everyone when it suits him. Given the shit he's done in the bibles stories, if he was a real person, I'd spit on his grave as what a disgusting entity he is.

What, you think I'm Catholic?  Hehehe...  No, I've read through the Bible.  I own 4 different translations of the Bible ESV, NASB, NIV, and KJV.  And yeah, those things that He owns, He does possess the right to take, preserve, or restore their lives as He sees fit.  After all, they belong to Him.  Well, you'll have your chance to carry that attitude with you into eternity, but I sure wouldn't recommend it.  In fact, I suspect that you'll be so overwhelmed by the experience, you won't be able to.  Hopefully, you'll make a different choice before you reach that end.

He's a tyrannical character with a demand for worship otherwise punishes those who don't, as has been said many times in the bibles on words.

Well, He punishes you for your crimes, but it won't be about your not having worshipped Him primarily.  It will be about every other thing in life that you've done to contravene the moral law.  Your rap sheet will probably been in the millions of pages, just like it is with everyone else and would be with me...were I not a Christian.

So if he was real, which he isn't, I would not worship it, because I live by a moral standard higher then your own expectations.

So you actually live up to your own moral standards perfectly huh?  And your standards are higher than God's huh?  Okay, if that's true, good for you.  Good luck with that.

One other thing, your atheist yourself if you didn't realize, because as has been said, because you don't believe in other religions and their deities, you deny their existence on the basis of just one.

Yeah, I do deny false religions, but that wouldn't make me an atheist.  You might want to familiarize yourself with what an atheist is.

[Odoital778412]

Hey,  don't you have some little kids to go harass for no good reason?  You're in law enforcement?  A public servant?  Apparently you're more than just a servant of god.. You're breaking the Sabbath and working on Sunday? 
Well...see ya in H E double dirty Q-tips officer..

Don't worry, I'll be doing my fair share of resting in just a couple of hours.  But yeah, I'm in law enforcement.  Not an officer anymore.  I work in the dispatch behind a desk these days.

[Sal1981]

No, I'm just pointing out that He doesn't require it.  That's why you're free to not worship and to reject Him.  The commensurable good is to know God, but that can only be done through free choices.  Otherwise, things like worship and love are meaningless.  So while God desires your appropriate behavior toward Him, He does not require it.  Nor does He force Himself upon you.

If I was living in the Amazonian rain forest and never heard of your particular interpretation of your particular denomination, would I still go to Hell, even if I was a good person?

[aitm]

Nor does He force Himself upon you.

tell that to a poor little virgin girl……..liar

[Mermaid]

So I’m reading through this thread and being impressed by the honesty expressed.
Virtually everyone essentially said that even if the Bible or the God of the Bible were proven to be true, they would still reject Him.  In one sense, that doesn’t surprise me, since that’s what the Bible predicts.  But in another sense, seeing that level of denial is a bit mind blowing.  But it started me thinking about the demand for evidence and whether or not the demand is real or just rhetorical (i.e. used for mere effect)?

Do you think your own demand for evidence or the objections you have are just rhetorical, real, or maybe both?

I would not say that. I am all about empirical evidence. The wheels fall off when you put words in peoples' mouths.

[Aletheia]

Virtually everyone essentially said that even if the Bible or the God of the Bible were proven to be true, they would still reject Him.  In one sense, that doesn’t surprise me, since that’s what the Bible predicts.  But in another sense, seeing that level of denial is a bit mind blowing.  But it started me thinking about the demand for evidence and whether or not the demand is real or just rhetorical (i.e. used for mere effect)?

Do you think your own demand for evidence or the objections you have are just rhetorical, real, or maybe both?

If you were presented with empirical evidence that Hitler was your supreme ruler and wielded god-like powers, would you accept him as your lord or would you reject him?

Many atheists have no problem accepting the existence of a god if empirical evidence is provided, but believing in the existence of a being doesn't mean we choose to follow it or accept its law without defiance - especially if we perceive such a being as inconsistent, detrimental to human life, cruel, and ruthlessly unfair.

Please put away your straw man. Atheists don't have a problem with accepting the existence of a god (assuming there's evidence to substantiate the claim) - we have a problem accepting a morally bankrupt god as being worthy of following.

[Johan]

I should be, but unfortunately, I have to work. 

The big guy takes a dim view of that sort of thing from what I understand so see you in hell sinner. Or have you cherry picked that part out of your particular version of god likes and dislikes?