And Meanwhile In Scotland.........

[stromboli]

https://paulbraterman.wordpress.com/2015/05/20/creationism-in-scottish-schools-we-won/

Calling on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to issue official guidance to bar the presentation in Scottish publicly funded schools of separate creation and of Young Earth doctrines as viable alternatives to the established science of evolution, common descent, and deep time.

As recently as December 2014, the Scottish Government’s official position stopped short of giving any guidance at all about the teaching of Creationism in science classes, on the grounds that such things should be left to teachers, and to bodies such as Education Scotland and the Scottish Qualifications Authority, rather than being dealt with by the Government as such. Now we have, at last, a clear statement from the responsible minister that Creationism should not be taught as science. This U-turn is concealed by the use of the word “therefore”. The Minister has now given the guidance that we sought. How does he reconcile this with the principle of governmental non-intervention in the curriculum? By implying that he is not stating a new position, but one that had been implicit in Education Scotland’s guidance all along.

I think supporters of science over superstition should be willing to accept this polite fiction. The Scottish parliamentary petition process, far superior to that at Westminster, has worked exactly as it should. A handful of individuals, with no external resources, have been able to force discussion of a politically uncomfortable topic at ministerial level. The Minister, doggedly defending the status quo, has tacitly recognise that all was not well, and, while explicitly refraining from issuing new guidance, has issued new guidance. The necessary commitment to teachers’ independence (see full text of letter below) has been displayed, in the very act of instructing them how to use it. All parties can claim victory, and I for one am left with an enhanced respect to that most maligned of professions, the politician.

In addition, the Government’s December 2014 position was that no cause for concern had been shown. Now, however, the Minister shows awareness of concerns involving’s three separate Education Authorities (there are more). In this new context, the reference to monitoring through inspection moves from poorly concealed denialism to active commitment.

Our Petition, having made its way through the Public Petitions Committee and been twice considered by the Education and Culture Committee, has now been formally closed. In the words of the Convener of the latter committee as stated in the official record,

One of the concerns that I raised was not about the banning of discussions of such philosophies and ideas in schools but about the possible intrusion of creationism into science classes. In the minister’s letterâ€"which I will quote to ensure that it is in the Official Reportâ€"he has helpfully pointed out:

“Guidance provided by Education Scotland, set out in the ‘Principles and Practice’ papers and the ‘Experiences and Outcomes’ documentation for each of the 8 curriculum areas does not identify Creationism as a scientific principle. It should therefore not be taught as part of science lessons.”

The Government could not have made that any clearer, and I am therefore in accord with other members that, in light of the Government’s letter, we should close the petition.

So what have we achieved? Far more than I would have imagined possible.


Over 600 signatures, including three Nobel prize winners.
Strong letters of support from many bodies, including the Society for Biology, and the British Centre for Science Education, and from a wide range of highly qualified individuals, including professors, schoolteachers, and clergymen.
Widespread public discussion of what had been until then almost a non-issue, with a total of more than 60 reports in every major newspaper in Scotland and many far beyond.
An amazing piece of self-exposure from Glasgow’s Centre for Intelligent Design, rapidly identified by the British Centre for Science Education as Creationist in its claims that macroevolution is contentious, and that the accepted science of evolution does not account for the origin of novelty
Greatly heighten public awareness, and an end to the pretence that such outrageous incidents as that at Kirktonholme were rarer and isolated events. (Regular readers will know that at Kirktonholme, books handed out in school assembly showed dinosaurs being used as farm animals, and said that the reason for belief in evolution was the wish to justify personal wickedness.)
A motion in the Scottish Parliament, signed by 22 Members (out of a total of around 100 eligible to sign), saying
That the Parliament congratulates South Lanarkshire Council on taking decisive action to prevent the teaching of creationism in schools by introducing new guidance; condemns any promotion of creationism in publicly funded schools, including the reported distribution of creationist books at Kirktonholme Primary School; believes that creationism should not be presented as a scientific theory and viable alternative to the established theory of evolution, and supports the Society of Biology and the Scottish Secular Society position in opposing the teaching of creationism in the classroom.

The Irish got it right and now so have the Scots. Going to have to get a bottle of Johnny Walker Red Label for a wee toast.......

[Mike Cl]

This may be even better than the Irish!  But it's great news that both things have happened.  It really underscores how anti-intellectual and anti-science our govt. really is.

[trdsf]

Must be nice to live in a civilized nation.

[PickelledEggs]

I like Johnnie Double Black.....

[Munch]

My bf lives in scotland wanting to get his degree from stirling university. He's mentioned in the past about if he'd move somewhere else after uni, like another country. But honestly, given its current growth in terms of decency, education and political rights, aside from Denmark, I don't know why anyone would want to leave.

Just going there to stay with him it really feels like an awesome place to live. True it's rugged and cold weather, but it's got everything going for it.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Soon as President Cruz gets elected we invade Scotland! It's time to teach them Scots a lesson or two about science the way god intended it to be. 

[Green Bottle]

Id heard about this story but never really followed it or knew much about it but hey, good news eh?

This may be even better than the Irish!  But it's great news that both things have happened.  It really underscores how anti-intellectual and anti-science our govt. really is.

You can always rely on the Celtic nations to show ye all the way..

Must be nice to live in a civilized nation.

Aye well we like to think we are, but we would be even better if we can get th fk away from England...

I like Johnnie Double Black.....

Johnnie Walker is a nice drop,  got half a bottle of Red Label left, ill he having that later..

My bf lives in scotland wanting to get his degree from stirling university. He's mentioned in the past about if he'd move somewhere else after uni, like another country. But honestly, given its current growth in terms of decency, education and political rights, aside from Denmark, I don't know why anyone would want to leave.

Just going there to stay with him it really feels like an awesome place to live. True it's rugged and cold weather, but it's got everything going for it.

Stirling is a nice part of the country, if you ever get there you should visit the Wallace Monument....

Soon as President Cruz gets elected we invade Scotland! It's time to teach them Scots a lesson or two about science the way god intended it to be. 

  Ye all better bring a big army then..............ochaye..

[Munch]

Stirling is a nice part of the country, if you ever get there you should visit the Wallace Monument....

I actually want to see stirling castle, after seeing a documentary on it, it looked really interesting. And they live like 500 yards from it.

[Green Bottle]

I actually want to see stirling castle, after seeing a documentary on it, it looked really interesting. And they live like 500 yards from it.

I've been there a few times ,the castle an the wallace monument are very popular with the tourists....

[Munch]

Cool, having you ever been to the filling station in stirling?

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Ye all better bring a big army then..............ochaye..

I hear we have a pretty good army,  but I was in the Navy so what do I know.  How about we just give you Teddy and call it a draw?

[stromboli]

Having been in some love/hate situations with Scots in pubs and suchlike, I can tell you that on their turf, my money is on the Scots. Never met one that wasn't ready, willing and quite able to stand their ground. And also some of the finest, friendliest and willing to help you people I have personally ever known.

[trdsf]

I've been there a few times ,the castle an the wallace monument are very popular with the tourists....

I would've thought those were designed for a fantasy movie.  Especially the second one.  But then, I've been waxing philosophic about our lack of deep history over on this side of the Atlantic today anyway.  There are so few large pre-European sites this far north, and of what there is, nothing advanced like the Mayan and Aztec cities of Central and South America.

And I'm sorry, but my first thought after 'the wallace monument' was "Where's the Gromit monument, then?" :)

[Munch]

I just wish William Wallace wasn't played by now hollywoods own cancerous lump of insanity mel gibson.

[Green Bottle]

Cool, having you ever been to the filling station in stirling?

Aye i probably have but its been a good few years since i was out that way, i do remember there's a great wee chippy down the hill from the castle, cant mind what its called tho...

I hear we have a pretty good army,  but I was in the Navy so what do I know.  How about we just give you Teddy and call it a draw?

  as long as its a scottish teddy..

I would've thought those were designed for a fantasy movie.  Especially the second one.  But then, I've been waxing philosophic about our lack of deep history over on this side of the Atlantic today anyway.  There are so few large pre-European sites this far north, and of what there is, nothing advanced like the Mayan and Aztec cities of Central and South America.

And I'm sorry, but my first thought after 'the wallace monument' was "Where's the Gromit monument, then?" :)

You mite find a Gromit monument somewhere in england , none of that rubbish up here   
i know what ur saying about the pics, a bit ''Game of Thrones eh....

I just wish William Wallace wasn't played by now hollywoods own cancerous lump of insanity mel gibson.

When Braveheart was 1st released i loved it, even tho parts of it were historically innacurate it was very popular and seemed to galvanise the population, i dont mean there was anti-english feeling but it made us proud to be scots and proud of our ancestors who had fought the english an taken no shit.  And it's still a good film i think even tho we all know now that Mel is a Racist Drunk.............