Life is Precious

[Odoital778412]

This whole concept of "Life is Precious" that is the only basis of the Pro-life position that I can see is so irrational and contradictory to me.  As far as I can see this concept is based entirely on the premise that a SOUL actually exists.  The clip in the post at the bottom of the "Present your evidence here" thread so aptly portrays the irony in this.  But presuming we had a soul then the next question is "where did it come from".  In which case the answer would have to be  either it already existed or there is some ongoing process in which souls are still being created.  But since we are the only animal with a soul this is where it gets really tricky.  So if these souls already existed what have they been doing for the last 20 billion years waiting for us to come around??  But if these souls are still being created then considering the very limited prospects of having a good life, why would a soul want to inhabit a human body at all?  Just so they can take a chance at living and then end up going to heaven or an eternity in hell??  Now the Mormons have an interesting idea.  Hell is just a place you will exist in the absence of god yet you will still be able to see all that you are missing out on for all eternity again.  I guess this is why the Catholics have purgatory.  But with the Mormons you can become a god yourself and then rule your own universe.  Sheesh!!!  I had a Mormon try to recruit me a while back.  He didn't know I was an atheist so he asked me if I believed in the search for truth?  I replied " No. People are just looking for something to believe in."

I always thought the concept of life being precious came from the idea that life is a gift, you only have one, it's fragile, and your life does not ultimately belong to you.  I suppose the existence of a soul is related, but I'm not sure its primary.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

I suppose the easiest way to find out just how precious your life actually is is to stop eating. If your belly bloats out with agonizing pain and you're fine with that then it's not all that precious. If, on the other hand you continue to eat and maintain a normal healthy lifestyle then it's a bit more precious than you think.

[aitm]

I always thought the concept of life being precious came from the idea that life is a gift, you only have one, it's fragile, and your life does not ultimately belong to you.  I suppose the existence of a soul is related, but I'm not sure its primary.

lots of assertions, no real bona fide proof.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Just who does your life ultimately belong to? The big invisible wiskered one in the sky? Hmmmmm?

[Odoital778412]

lots of assertions, no real bona fide proof.

So you believe that you have more than life, that your life isn't fragile?  And you must have brought yourself into being, right?  And since you brought yourself into being, your life actually does belong to you then, huh?

[Odoital778412]

Just who does your life ultimately belong to? The big invisible wiskered one in the sky? Hmmmmm?

Your life would belong to the one ultimately responsible for creating it, and I'm sure you didn't create yourself.  That would entail a logical contradiction in that you would have to be and not be at the same time and in the same relationship.

[Mike Cl]

So you believe that you have more than life, that your life isn't fragile?  And you must have brought yourself into being, right?  And since you brought yourself into being, your life actually does belong to you then, huh?

Nope, these is nothing beyond 'life' and this one life is indeed, fragile.  No, I did not bring myself into being.  What we call nature did.  Since nature is not a thing or a person, but a process, my life actually does belong to me.  It is up to me to run it as I see fit.  There is no soul, no inherent internal guidance system--just me and the society I grew up in.  From that I craft my life and live it best I can.  I like what Joseph Campbell says about the purpose of life--the purpose of life is life.  That's why we live. 

[Odoital778412]

Nope, these is nothing beyond 'life' and this one life is indeed, fragile.  No, I did not bring myself into being.  What we call nature did.  Since nature is not a thing or a person, but a process, my life actually does belong to me.  It is up to me to run it as I see fit.  There is no soul, no inherent internal guidance system--just me and the society I grew up in.  From that I craft my life and live it best I can.  I like what Joseph Campbell says about the purpose of life--the purpose of life is life.  That's why we live.

You have only one life (We Agree).  Life is fragile (We Agree).  Your life was given to you (We Partially Agree).  Your life belongs to you (We Disagree).  Well, from your perspective that makes sense.  There is a sense in which it does belong to you.  You're given freedom in which to exercise your will in this life.  However, from the Christian perspective, the fact that you've been allowed to drive the car doesn't mean it's yours'.  Hehehe...  I tend to think that the idea of purpose goes beyond mere existence or merely possessing life or living.  Why we live is to live?  There's probably something deeper to it than that.  I think the profundity of our feelings, desires, and thoughts are pointers or indicators of that reality.  I think our uniqueness in that regard is also a possible indicator.

[Mike Cl]

You have only one life (We Agree).  Life is fragile (We Agree).  Your life was given to you (We Partially Agree).  Your life belongs to you (We Disagree).  Well, from your perspective that makes sense.  There is a sense in which it does belong to you.  You're given freedom in which to exercise your will in this life.  However, from the Christian perspective, the fact that you've been allowed to drive the car doesn't mean it's yours'.  Hehehe...  I tend to think that the idea of purpose goes beyond mere existence or merely possessing life or living.  Why we live is to live?  There's probably something deeper to it than that.  I think the profundity of our feelings, desires, and thoughts are pointers or indicators of that reality.  I think our uniqueness in that regard is also a possible indicator.

I think your perspective makes sense to you too.  I do not think you are insincere or dishonest in your postings about your belief.  And believe me, I've tried to shove myself into you world view.  I just have not been able to do so, for it does not make sense to me on any level.  If our life is ours, but yet it is being critiqued by a creator, then it is not ours.  I think we agree with that.  If so, then that creator you make it quite plain what it is we have to do to maintain our status of okay or not okay.  If I am okay, then all is good for eternity.  If I am not okay, then there will be problems--to hell with me for eternity, where I will be reminded each moment that I failed a test that I did not ask for--and for all eternity for flunking such a short test.  It seems I am a captured 'soul' that cannot bail out even if I wanted to.  And I am not sure of what the rules are, for if I were born in the middle east, my god would be different, or if I were born in the depths of the Amazon jungle, my god(s) would be different.  That I was born in a christian area was accidential--well, maybe not in your worldview.  The christian instruction book cannot be said to be easy to read and follow, it is not clear and concise.  And if you look at it's history it is difficult, if not impossible to know which book called the bible is the real one--there are literally hundreds of them out there.  So, for those reasons I reject christanity (oh, there are really many, many more reasons to reject it, but that is for a later post).

[aitm]

So you believe that you have more than life, that your life isn't fragile?  And you must have brought yourself into being, right?  And since you brought yourself into being, your life actually does belong to you then, huh?

Oh stop with the blather already. Brought yourself into being…what kind of stupid crap is that? No, "your" life does not belong to you, that would suggest you get to control it and there is no control, for anyone or anything. Your life is the sum from birth to death, for many, very many it is taken from them by people or things beyond their control, usurping the idea that life belongs to them. You are trying to romanticize life and it is not romantic for the vast majority, it is a mean, vile and wretched existence. And for those how wish to attribute this to a god, how horrible this god must be to allow it.

[Mermaid]

You have only one life (We Agree).  Life is fragile (We Agree).  Your life was given to you (We Partially Agree).  Your life belongs to you (We Disagree).  Well, from your perspective that makes sense.  There is a sense in which it does belong to you.  You're given freedom in which to exercise your will in this life.  However, from the Christian perspective, the fact that you've been allowed to drive the car doesn't mean it's yours'.  Hehehe...  I tend to think that the idea of purpose goes beyond mere existence or merely possessing life or living.  Why we live is to live?  There's probably something deeper to it than that.  I think the profundity of our feelings, desires, and thoughts are pointers or indicators of that reality.  I think our uniqueness in that regard is also a possible indicator.

At the very foundation of my religious beliefs (or lack thereof) has always been about life and existence and meaningfulness of said life. So what about other animals? I say "other" because humans are animals, too. Why are we different than the animals we kill and eat? The pets we keep in the house? The birds and the bees and all that?

[Mermaid]

So you believe that you have more than life, that your life isn't fragile?  And you must have brought yourself into being, right?  And since you brought yourself into being, your life actually does belong to you then, huh?

My parents brought me into life. Their parents brought them to life. And so on. Because biology.

Are the lives of other animals just as fragile?

[trdsf]

I always thought the concept of life being precious came from the idea that life is a gift, you only have one, it's fragile, and your life does not ultimately belong to you.  I suppose the existence of a soul is related, but I'm not sure its primary.

I would say that life is precious because we only get one chance at it.  Out of all those billions of years and billions of cubic parsecs, I get one brief breath of a chance to do something with myself for the betterment of my species.  That's remarkable; the number of possible humans (i.e. the number of viable combinations of DNA it's possible for a member of our species to have: estimated to be on the order of 6×10^9632959) who don't get that chance, and who won't have existed by the time we evolve into something else (if we don't drive ourselves to extinction) is so much vaster than not just the number of humans who have ever existed (around 1.08x10¹¹), or the total number of subatomic particles in the universe (roughly 10⁸⁹), but the number of Planck volumes in the universe (estimated 4×10¹⁸⁵) that you can get vertigo just contemplating it.

These are the things that give me a sense of awe: the statistics are breathtaking.  However, the assumption that I somehow need to be here is an incorrect reading of things.  The metaphorical dice came up in my favor; if the genetic combination made by my parents had differed, then I -- in the sense of the person who is first-born child of my parents -- would be someone else entirely in makeup, although I might well be philosophically, intellectually, and to a certain extent physically similar.  But I -- the person typing the sentence you are reading right now -- wouldn't be here.

I accept that I am not the point of the universe; it doesn't care that I'm here.  I'm just a byproduct of what chemistry and physics can do given enough time to evolve complex systems we call 'living'.  I'm not 'special' in any real, concrete sense.

And I find that a surprisingly optimistic way of seeing myself in the universe: I am able to make of myself what I can, rather than being forced into something by an outside entity.  I don't have unrealistic expectations about myself, or the people around me.

And yet, the idea that stars died to give me the opportunity to be here... wow.