Perennial Philosophy

[Sargon The Grape]

*face palm* No, you only thought you did, because as I've mentioned before, you've nowhere in your experience to draw from to possibly relate to this phenomenon.

[the_antithesis]

You just like to get high because you are a worthless human being and you're trying to convince us that not only does it not make you worthless but makes you capital S Special.

We're not buying it. We don't care what stoned assholes you quote.

Go away.

[Icarus]

There is scientific evidence that entheogenic drugs trigger mystical/religious experiences when they are administered in an appropriately conducive setting (the recent Johns Hopkins psilocybin study concluded this), likewise the work done by Dr. Rick Strassman also came to similar findings. And I'd also wager any further clinical trial would come to the same conclusion.

Did you read the post you replied to? I said specifically "other than the personal effect of mind altering substances on humans" having a mystical or religious experience is only real in the overstimulated brain of the user.

[Kafei]

Did you read the post you replied to? I said specifically "other than the personal effect of mind altering substances on humans" having a mystical or religious experience is only real in the overstimulated brain of the user.

I think you're misinterpreting it. I'm equating "mystical experience" or "ego death" with the state of mind that is elicited by these psychedelics. These are simply poetic terms for this phenomenon in consciousness. And we're not entirely sure of the mechanism and whether it's truly due to overstimulation. Perhaps you're familiar with the work of Robin Carhart-Harris? He's done some work with dosing volunteers with psilocybin and scanning their brains with an fMRI to look at brain activity. You'd expect "overstimulation," but instead you have lessened activity in the areas of the brain that may be responsible for the so-called Freudian "ego," and stimulated activity in dormant areas of the brain. Despite the research that has done thus far, it's still not understood exactly how these tryptamine-compounds work on the mind. Consciousness itself is still quite a mystery to neuroscience.

You just like to get high because you are a worthless human being and you're trying to convince us that not only does it not make you worthless but makes you capital S Special.

We're not buying it. We don't care what stoned assholes you quote.

Go away.

I don't like to get high. This experience is not something you're going to rush to repeat. Most people after the initial "heroic dose" never return to it. It's literally that profound. In fact, one psychedelicist once said, "Reality is a crutch for people who can't handle psychedelics." Very true. I mean, these experiences have the potential to be quite terrifying. Psychedelics aren't addictive. I think that's a huge misconception amongst people who know very little about these things. Aren't you the same person who didn't even read past the first paragraph? It's good that you're not buying anything, anyway, because I've nothing to sell. Oh, wait, you would have realized that already if you actually read the very first paragraph of the OP!

If you're implying that I've "moved a goal," this is false. I've changed nothing about my position, and instead have been steadfast regarding my position relative to the Perennial Philosophy.

[the_antithesis]

I don't like to get high.

Yes you do.

In fact, one psychedelicist once said, "Reality is a crutch for people who can't handle psychedelics."

Stoners say all sorts of stupid things.

It's good that you're not buying anything, anyway, because I've nothing to sell.

Yes you do. You want us to take this shit seriously. If you want to put poison into your body and feel part of your brain die, that is your business.

If you want us to try it, or worse, give your self-medication respect, you can fuck right off.

Go away.

[Kafei]

Yes you do.

I promise you, that is not the case. If anyone is smoking DMT twice or thrice a year, then they're abusing it. One high-dosage of a psychedelic experience could leave you pondering it for a lifetime. Most people, like I said, never return to it after one heavy dose. If you ever do return to it, it's out of your own curiosity, of course... The next time you do it, you're a little more cautious. It's easy to do it the first time, 'cause you don't know what you're getting yourself into. Ever afterwards, you're going to have to have a little chat with yourself before you probably eventually chicken out.

Stoners say all sorts of stupid things.

The quote is actually attributed to Lily Tomlin. I don't think she's a "stoner."

Yes you do. You want us to take this shit seriously. If you want to put poison into your body and feel part of your brain die, that is your business.

No, I want to be understood with as little as ambiguity as possible, and of course I'd like feedback on these concepts. I've appreciated the feedback I've got so far. However, you're a different case, 'cause it's quite obvious you didn't even read the OP. You seem to be going by what other people have responded to it.

If you want us to try it, or worse, give your self-medication respect, you can fuck right off.

Go away.

I'd like to pique people's interest into this very peculiar aspect of consciousness which psychedelics have the ability to induce. They don't necessarily have to take these things. There's websites such as "Erowid.com" that have very interesting information and facts on these substances that are interesting enough. Of course, if someone wants to take up this endeavor themselves, that's not anybody's business but their own.

[the_antithesis]

"No, I want to be understood with as little as ambiguity as possible, and feedback on these concepts.

Fine.

You are a cancer sore on on humanity.

Go away.

[Kafei]

Fine. You are a cancer sore on on humanity. Go away.

You don't have to participate in the thread, you know. What's with this "go away"? Do you tell this to everyone who types out long posts? Is that what you're truly afaid of? Do you fear sesquipedalians? Are you a sesquipedalophobic?

[the_antithesis]

I just don't like stupidity.

Hence, I do not like you.

[Kafei]

I just don't like stupidity.

Hence, I do not like you.

I could say the exact same thing for yourself, and I think I did by calling you sesquipedalophobic. You are participating in a thread in which you haven't even read the original post, yet you continue to add your opinion. Wouldn't that be defined as stupidity? Your basis for calling me "stupid" is unfounded, and the fact that you result to insults instead of trying to argue any real points says volumes about yourself.

[the_antithesis]

Your basis for calling me "stupid" is unfounded,

You are hear to "pique people's interest" in putting poison into their bodies and nothing else. All of your posts have been in this thread. You are not interested in anything else or to do anything on this forum but to push your little agenda.

You are a proselytizer.

Go away.

[Sargon The Grape]

If you're implying that I've "moved a goal," this is false. I've changed nothing about my position, and instead have been steadfast regarding my position relative to the Perennial Philosophy.

I've already shown that Perineum Philosophy is based on delusions. You rejected it on the basis of my not having experience with your drug of choice, to which I can only respond with, "So fucking what?" Eyewitness testimony is the most unreliable form of evidence. You've been presented with the science many times, and you blatantly misinterpret it to your own ends. I don't have to take LSD or shrooms or whatever else you claim gives "ultimate consciousness" to know the science of it, and until you can get that through your thick skull you are going to be the subject of ridicule.

[Kafei]

I've already shown that Perineum Philosophy is based on delusions. You rejected it on the basis of my not having experience with your drug of choice, to which I can only respond with, "So fucking what?" Eyewitness testimony is the most unreliable form of evidence. You've been presented with the science many times, and you blatantly misinterpret it to your own ends. I don't have to take LSD or shrooms or whatever else you claim gives "ultimate consciousness" to know the science of it, and until you can get that through your thick skull you are going to be the subject of ridicule.

What science behind it? Neuroscience doesn't have a clue as to what exactly is going on with psychedelics, let alone can it even explain the very phenomenology of consciousness itself. This isn't simply "eyewitness testimony," because it has been shown by Strassman, Griffiths, and others that these mystical experiences do occur, and can be reliably reproduced in a laboratory setting. This isn't like the unreliable evidence of someone who claimed they saw the Loch Ness Monster. So, just because you think you have some kind of abstact notion of the "science behind it," doesn't mean you truly understand what the experience consist of. Neurons firing and the subjective qualia, while they may be directly related, are two quite different things.

When you take a sufficient dose of something like psilocybin mushrooms, at about the hour and a half mark, walking becomes out of the question, sex (although you may consider it) is out of the question, because you are nailed to the ground somewhere off at the edge of the firelight wrestling with a mystery so profound, so bizarre that even as we sit here with Husserl, Heidegger, and Heisenberg and all these clowns under our belts, it is still absolutely mysterious, appalling, challenging, boundary-dissolving, and unavoidably ecstatic. It is THE living mystery, and I don't know how many of them there are in the world, but for my money, there only has to be one to rescue the entire concept from, you know, the dirty claws of the reductionist, the materialist, the physicalist, the  the Christ-ers, the nothing but-ers, the merely this and the simply that-ers!

You are hear to "pique people's interest" in putting poison into their bodies and nothing else. All of your posts have been in this thread. You are not interested in anything else or to do anything on this forum but to push your little agenda.

You are a proselytizer.

Go away.

No, this is precisely what I'm not doing. I'm not trying to get people to take psychedelics, but rather pique their interest in the topic of psychedelics and the experiences that they have the ability to launch people into. I have no agenda to push. I'm interested only in discourse. I've nothing to sell. If someone decides to take up psychedelics, that's entirely up to them. Meditation is a natural route to this experience, after all, the very powerful psychedelic DMT is already inside you.

[Solitary]

I agree that whatever can be done with psychedelics can be done with meditation, because I have done it, so what's your point? Solitary

[Kafei]

I agree that whatever can be done with psychedelics can be done with meditation, because I have done it, so what's your point? Solitary

Well, if you agree with that notion, then I suppose the point of that may be that perhaps endogenous DMT has to do with the fact that meditation can induce these experiences without in-taking exogenous psychedelics. The speculation of the main body of the OP, however, and I'll rephrase it, 'cause Hijiri Byakuren had a problem with my phrasing. It's that "God" when these early religions were just getting traction was originally a metaphor to describe this altered state. In other words, it's my opinion that Christ may have had this experience which I've been referring to as "Cosmic consciousness," and when he went on to share his experience, alas he became the founder of a religion. Likewise, Gautama, Muhammad, etc.